Mike Landau new dumble???

[les_guitar]

WTF!

[CHIP]

Andy, exactly.


Oh, and:

3/
-ALL people like to own things that only rich people can own.
-When told they can't buy something, a rich person's response is invariably,"Everything has its' price."
-Rich people DO NOT like being told they can't have something. This concept is foreign to them.
-Demand/price for an object has little to do with it's inherent value, particularly once more than one collector decides they want that object.
-Being able to play the guitar well is not something rich people can simply purchase.
-Having a Dumble built for you required a number of things, including being able to play in a manner that entertains the builder.
-Dumbles were the most expensive guitar amps available in the '70s and '80s, so not only are they rare, they are Vintage.
-A handful of famous players used them, and people like their heroes.
-Rich people know that musicians will eventually need money.

All of these things lead us to how much Dumbles cost on the open market. I say 'open market' because buying a new one is impossible unless you are already famous player (and even then, there are no guarantees...ask Mayer), so that market is effectively 'closed' to the 'rich-but-not-talented' crowd.

Used Dumbles cost a lot of money because they are collector's items. It has NOTHING to do with the sound: they don't all sound the same and not all sound very different from --nor better than-- commonly-available Fenders/Marshalls/Boogies, but Dumbles are ALL very valuable.

They are collectible because they are exclusive and rare. Some musicians want them partly for the sound of a few of the amps, but in large part because most musicians think that the gear that they can't have is going to help them take the 'next step', either with their playing or career. Owning a Dumble has certainly raised the profile of several mediocre players that wouldn't have otherwise been a blip on the radar. Never discount the lure of 'bragging rights'. We see that here regularly.

It all started when a musician for whom Dumble had built an amp, finally succumbed to an exorbitant offer made by a person who would never have gotten a Dumble otherwise.

Using a Dumble on a gig has become the musical equivalent to driving a Ferrari 250 GTO to the grocery store.

I like your analogy. Rings true to me.

[nix]

WTF!

I know, right?


So....all of that weirdness aside, I think Mike gets extra Cool Points for getting the silver-face with the suede covering. Those are (to me!) the coolest looking Dumbles.
Anyone have a clear shot of it? Always neat to see a newborn Dumble.

This reminds me of something I've been meaning to ask, so here's a new thread, as it's off-topic:
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13740

[Chris G]

Given the Marshall stereo power amp in the rack above the dumble and the other toys in the rack, the Dumble is only a part of the sound....

IMO nix just posted the explanation for the Palmer PGA and the Marshall stero power amp and the small two cabinets on the right side of the pic:

"I sometimes use a Lexicon MPX-1 in the effects loop of the amp with a Suhr Mini Mix for reverb and delay, or I take a speaker line out of the amp into a Palmer PGA-4 Speaker Simulator into the Lexicon MPX-1 into a Marshall Valvestate 8008 power amp into 2 Custom Audio 2x10 cabs with Celestion Vintage 10 speakers. These 2 cabinets have the wet sound only."

Cheers,

Max

This a common way to use effects, the system is called "wet dry wet".
The Dumble provides the dry tone to a dry 4x12 cab. A line out to
the Palmer, from the Palmer to the effects processor and to the Marshall power amp, and finally out to the stereo cabs right and left
Thanks
Chris

[Max]

I was actually talking about what interested me for my own usage and/or taste.

Hi nix,

please let me explain the reason for my sarcastic comment:

You did write:

Having heard Landau's Overdrive Special and his Slidewinder, I personally find the latter far more intriguing

This statement is IMO an obvious personal comment and obviously based on your personal taste. No misunderstanding possible.

But this statement:

The ODS has the unfortunate effect of 'genericizing' Mike's normally unique tone

IMO is no longer recognizable as a personal comment from the personal perspective of your personal taste. IMO this statement has the character of "Here is an objective report of objective facts concerning this amp. This is a report of what this amp in fact does to the guitar tone of Michael Landau."

And IMO a description like: "This amp sounds like this and does this" is something completely different than a personal comment like "I don't like ML's guitar tone when he uses this amp".

Do you understand the difference?

However. Why do I think that this difference is of some importance?:

There are now around 9000 members here who sometimes use this forum as an information database. So in my opinion those here who post information (especially concerning original Dumble amps and their specs and sounds etc.) should perhaps be aware that IMO they have the responsibility to make clear which part of the content of their posts is descriptive information and which part is personal comment.

To make this as clear as possible is in my personal opinion of some importance to avoid misunderstandings and misinformation.

IMO both - descriptive information and personal and emotional comments - are valuable contributions to the discussions in a forum like this. But IMO both should be clearly distinguishable.

Nothing personal, nix.

Cheers,

Max

[nix]

I was actually talking about what interested me for my own usage and/or taste.

Hi nix,

please let me explain the reason for my sarcastic comment:

You did write:

Having heard Landau's Overdrive Special and his Slidewinder, I personally find the latter far more intriguing

This statement is IMO an obvious personal comment and obviously based on your personal taste. No misunderstanding possible.

But this statement:

The ODS has the unfortunate effect of 'genericizing' Mike's normally unique tone

IMO is no longer recognizable as a personal comment from the personal perspective of your personal taste. IMO this statement has the character of "Here is an objective report of objective facts concerning this amp. This is a report of what this amp in fact does to the guitar tone of Michael Landau."

And IMO a description like: "This amp sounds like this and does this" is something completely different than a personal comment like "I don't like ML's guitar tone when he uses this amp".

Do you understand the difference?

However. Why do I think that this difference is of some importance?:

There are now around 9000 members here who sometimes use this forum as an information database. So in my opinion those here who post information (especially concerning original Dumble amps and their specs and sounds etc.) should perhaps be aware that IMO they have the responsibility to distiguish between information and personal comment.

In my personal opinion this difference is of some importance to avoid misinformation.

Nothing personal, nix.

Cheers,

Max

In the interest of pedantic clarification, I never typed the words, "I don't like ML's guitar tone when he uses this amp". This was an assumption made by YOU, Max.
I do, in fact 'like' the tone he gets with his ODS, but find it far less distinctive than say his Slidewinder. I stated as much. No biggie. Someone else felt completely the opposite way and I'm glad for them that they weren't ambushed in a Tolkein-esque word-storm. As I said before, this is the second time I've been side-swiped by you for no immediately obvious, nor otherwise apparent reason. I'm both confused and curious as to why me and not others....or are there others, as well?

Also, any grownup with basic reading comprehension skills should be able to easily make that distinction you explained the need to make. As you feel it is your calling to police these grounds and protect the innocent illiterates in this group (of which, I doubt there are many), I shall excuse myself from taking any more of your time. Be ever-vigilant however, as I plan to make more comments about an amplifier's sound on a forum devoted to the sound of amplifiers. They may even be (*gasp!*) of a subjective nature.
Catch me if you can!
Yours,
~Chris Nix, Scoundrel/Guitarist

[Max]

Having a Dumble built for you required a number of things, including being able to play in a manner that entertains the builder.

Hi Nix,

just to avoid further misunderstandigs:

What is your source for the info marked red by me?

I ask because I never did hear of an info like this up to now?

Cheers,

Max

[nix]

Having a Dumble built for you required a number of things, including being able to play in a manner that entertains the builder.

Hi Nix,

just to avoid further misunderstandigs:

What is your source for the info marked red by me?

I ask because I never did hear of an info like this up to now?

Cheers,

Max

Alexander (Howard at the time) explained this when he offered to build me an amp, that had I not been recommended to him by someone he respected, he would have required an audition recording. This he said, was his standard practice at the time (which was around'88-'89).
I heard these words come out of his mouth with my ears through my phone.

[guitardude57]

Hmmmmmm....................

what is with the bizarre temper stuff I'm seeing here lately?

makes no sense

[Max]

Alexander (Howard at the time) explained this when he offered to build me an amp, that had I not been recommended to him by someone he respected, he would have required an audition recording. This he said, was his standard practice at the time (which was around'88-'89).
I heard these words come out of his mouth with my ears through my phone.

Do you agree that requiring an audition recording could perhaps have some other reasons than to find out if the music and playing of some guitarist is personally perceived by Alexander Dumble as entertaining him?

Just some examples what could perhaps be some other reasons:

Is he a professional grade player?

Is his playing style and touch of a kind that he will be happy with a Dumble amp?

Is his style of a kind that he will be happy with an ODS or should I better recommend him to order a SSS?

etc.

Cheers,

Max

[nix]

Alexander (Howard at the time) explained this when he offered to build me an amp, that had I not been recommended to him by someone he respected, he would have required an audition recording. This he said, was his standard practice at the time (which was around'88-'89).
I heard these words come out of his mouth with my ears through my phone.

Do you agree that requiring an audition recording could perhaps have some other reasons than to find out if your music and playing is personally perceived as entertaining him?

Cheers,

Max

He said that he enjoyed something about the music/playing of every artist he had worked with, otherwise he wouldn't work with them. He did want to see me play at some point so the we could arrive at how the amp would have been voiced, but these were in fact, two separate requirements.

[nix]

oops.

[Max]

Alexander (Howard at the time) explained this
He said that he enjoyed something about the music/playing of every artist he had worked with, otherwise he wouldn't work with them

Hi nix,

I see. Thanks for the clarification concerning what you've meant by "entertaining". Sometimes my kind of joy about the music/playing of some artist is not of a kind that I would express as feeling entertained. This was probably the reason for my misunderstanding. So thanks again for the clarification.

Cheers,

Max

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Alexander (Howard at the time) explained this when he offered to build me an amp, that had I not been recommended to him by someone he respected, he would have required an audition recording. This he said, was his standard practice at the time (which was around'88-'89).
I heard these words come out of his mouth with my ears through my phone.

I heard this exact same story from Paul Reed Smith, and had heard it before from others. Paul recommended a friend to Dumble for an amp, and Dumble requested a tape of him playing before he would even consider it. He actually turned him down after getting it.

Another customer of mine (a friend of Robben Ford's actually) was trying to get an amp, was invited to the house where they "watched TV ate popcorn and talked" and was told "I cannot make you an amp at this time"... so, the "invite method" isn't exactly any sort of guarantee of anything.

[dogears]

I corroborate this one. The individual in question is a fantastic pro player who has recorded with Branford Marsalis and also toured with Robben as a member of his band!

Andy's account is only mildly incorrect. The player was invited to Alexanders three times where they jammed and ate popcorn. Dumble then offered to make him a Fender mod for like 5K. THe player wanted an ODS and was told I will not make them anymore.....

So, Alexander apparantly felt the player was worthy to do business with.

Said player did not want a mod.

Another customer of mine (a friend of Robben Ford's actually) was trying to get an amp, was invited to the house where they "watched TV ate popcorn and talked" and was told "I cannot make you an amp at this time"... so, the "invite method" isn't exactly any sort of guarantee of anything.