Frugal Amps / lead dress

[blave]

I came across this a few days ago:

http://www.frugalamps.com/dumble.html

and noted that Mr. Frugal likes to cross certain wires at right angles. My vague and distant Fields and Waves memory from my electrical engineering studies "way back when" says that this makes sense (less coupling between the wires) but every photo I've seen of HAD's wiring lacks any evidence of this philosophy.

Me personally (not ever having built an amp - yet!), I would be trying to minimize the amount of copper overall -- i.e. as-short-as-possible wiring for critical signal-bearing connections.

What say ye about right angles vs. short runs vs. "doesn't matter other than making it pretty"?

I am contemplating either a Ceriatone or Brown Note kit build, which is why I ask.

thanks,

Dave B.
San Jose, CA

[diagrammatiks]

touchy subject.

most people will argue to do death that dumble's way is the only way to do it.

however...in terms of signal management your fields and waves class beats the internet every time.

[ToneMerc]

Do you have to do it the way HAD did it to make great sounding amp, no. However, if I'm going to go through the exercise to build a #102 and call it a #102, then I'm going to emulate HAD's build style/layout as much as possible.

FWIW, the sound clips of the above mentioned D'lite clones were very brittle and harsh sounding. I wondered how much of that had to do with his own style of lead dress.

TM

[diagrammatiks]

well HAD is really influenced by the early style fender wirings as well, so are some of the mesas.

that being said...dumbles do use a bit more shielded wire then some other amps...

micromanaging the lead dress + shielded wire would probably be over-kill.

that being said...it's not that every wire could cross at right angles...

some stuff should cross, some stuff should never cross, some stuff should be twisted...i'd tsay the margin of error of leaving everything a bit loose would be smaller then crossing and twisting the wrong wires.

[selloutrr]

If signal has to cross voltage it's best to do it at a 90 degree angle to minimize the amount of contact.

IMHO the chassis looks like the width could be slimmed down to make the runs even shorter.. so I'm not sure how much I buy into his lead dressing being great.

I'll probably get flack for this but HAD's wiring isn't exactly what I would call clean either. So as long as you isolate the wires the best you can it's going to be a pretty nice amp it's magic is in the how the circuit and iron work together.

[Bob-I]

[img:405:692]http://www.gomonews.com/wp-content/uplo ... -worms.jpg[/img]


Dumble amps are the gold standard which many folks try to recreate. If someone says they can do it better, I question these folks.

Some of the lead dress in the Dumble's seem to be against the rules, but I've heard noticeable improvements by following his lead. I don't know Dumbles thought process, but I've heard the results.

[Structo]

Sure look like Ampdoc's relay boards.....

The problem I see in bending wires at sharp 90 degree bends is you are weakening the wire at that point, especially if the wire is solid core.

Personally, I see no need to do that.

I don't see any shielded cable in those amps as well.

The key thing in Dumble amps is to use his grounding scheme and dress the preamp tubes like he does as well.

[Bob-I]

Notice that he calls that an HRM because of the OD entrance pot.

Most of the folks here do a better job building.

[ampmike]

Just a tip on the BN amps.They are great!!But the wait can be 6 to 8 months.You will often end up doing another amp during the wait time.Moss is a very nice guy and has really nice kits,My Voxy 18 is one of my favorite amp EF 86 style.You just have to have patience.They are worth it.Mikey

[mmmoser]

Well, since this was my amp builds that started this thread, I can tell you the first amps I show on my website were my very first "Dumble" circuit amps. I did both of those early amps as a tryout in building them for a few friends that wanted me to try and give them close to the signature sound at a price they could afford- I used big chassis and did all the drilling and boards myself except for the switching boards. I certainly learned a lot from those early builds and they are both still running and playing local gigs and sounding great.
However, as I learned from them, I also found the reproduction chassis's available do indeed allow for shorter wiring runs and better shielding overall, so that's what I use now. Each one of my early builds taught me something on tweaking a circuit for a certain customers sound but I really never meant them to be a new design statement on how wiring should be done or reveal a new secret technique for mining new tones from the circuit. Its simply how I progressed over time. I also learned a lot here on the site over the years and recent work assimilates this knowledge...thanks to you all for helping me on that score.

[marshamps]

I read on TGP that Brown Note has people waiting for 22 Months! They are not happy.

[M Fowler]

Marshamps,

That is not good for Moss. He should get out of the kit business if his complete amps are selling that well. Kits without a lot of employees takes too much of his valuable time.

Hey nice Blonde Bassman kit you have, I am tempted way too often with that kit.

Mark

[Structo]

Yeah I would love to build one of those Fender kits for sure.

[bcook]

And I turned my blonde bassman into a D-amp.