Strat/Dumble. Always a problem for me until today!

[tag101]

Tag has a lot of experience with different amps and guitars.

Particularly D style amps.

Tag how many D style ODS clones have you had over the years?

He doesn't have a lot of technical electronic knowledge but can offer how something sounds or works for him.
He can be a bit of a character at times , but in general is pretty cool and can offer quite a bit from his experiences.

Thanks, I appreciate it. How many did I have? I never learned to count that high.



I have had the good fortune to put many different clones right on top of several different Dumbles. They include TwoRocks, Glaswerks, Carol Anns, Bludos, Fuchs, RedPlates, Brunos, Quinns and others.

[ayan]

Hope you're doing well too, Tag. I hear you on the 7.25" radius and small frets, I used to play a Strat like that 30 years ago, but now I don't believe I could go back to that. My HR 62 RI is definitely the best Fender Strat guitar I have ever owned and one of the nicest ones I have ever played. I have tried a lot of pickups and those stock 57/62s are second to none IMHO.

Cheers,

Gil

Lastly, I have two Strats, one with Kinman blues ("quiet" pickups, slightly overwound) and one with 57/62 pickups (regular single coils, RPRW mid pickup, low output), and the later always sounds better no matter what I do to the amp.

Hey Gil, I hope all is well.

As I always do when buying a new guitar, I became a mad obsessed before I bought the one I have. And for probably the first time in my life, I bought it when it was not my favorite one tonally. It was the balance of tone and comfort with the 9.5 R neck and 6105 frets. It sounded great, and plays so easy, its insane. That being said, by far the best sounding Strat i played, and I played all kinds of Clones, C.shops, and everything I could get my paws on, was a plain old dead stock production Fender Vintage series 57 RI. It laid waste tonally to every Custom shop I put it against (including mine), but the tiny frets, 7.25 radius neck, and thick sticky finish just made it to hard to play. Now my guitar has the fat 50s pups, which many other CS guitars at this one place had, and they are hotter than the regular Custom shop 50s pups. The pups in the production 57/62 RIs are suppose to be low output, and around the same as the "normal" CS 50s version. Why and how then, did the guitar have about 10-20% more output, just as much treble bass and mids, and were every bit as clear or clearer than the "higher output" versions? (same string gauge, and about the same pup height). As I said, i just ordered a set of don Mare super Sports, but it was a very hard thing to go with them instead of a set of those 57/62 RI pups. For a long time (years ago), my main guitar was a Daphne blue 57RI, and I tried almost every pup made back then thinking I was going to get something that killed those stock fenders. I listened after I changed them, and made elaborate clips comparing each set of pups, playing the exact same chords and licks. I remember really digging a set of Duncan Alnico 2s, but I ended up with the stock pups. They sounded better than anything else i tried, and my more than a small margin. I can get that 57 in Surf green (my favorite color ) brand new for around $11-1,200 because they are discontinuing them. I am still debating on whether to grab it because it was just a great guitar, or if fender just got those pups "right' the first time, and I should get a set of those. Regardless, that guitar was off the charts great. One of the best sounding Strats I have ever played in my life. Little neck, little frets, thick finish, and a tone that would blow you away.

[tag101]

Hope you're doing well too, Tag. I hear you on the 7.25" radius and small frets, I used to play a Strat like that 30 years ago, but now I don't believe I could go back to that. My HR 62 RI is definitely the best Fender Strat guitar I have ever owned and one of the nicest ones I have ever played. I have tried a lot of pickups and those stock 57/62s are second to none IMHO.

Cheers,

Gil

Lastly, I have two Strats, one with Kinman blues ("quiet" pickups, slightly overwound) and one with 57/62 pickups (regular single coils, RPRW mid pickup, low output), and the later always sounds better no matter what I do to the amp.

Hey Gil, I hope all is well.

As I always do when buying a new guitar, I became a mad obsessed before I bought the one I have. And for probably the first time in my life, I bought it when it was not my favorite one tonally. It was the balance of tone and comfort with the 9.5 R neck and 6105 frets. It sounded great, and plays so easy, its insane. That being said, by far the best sounding Strat i played, and I played all kinds of Clones, C.shops, and everything I could get my paws on, was a plain old dead stock production Fender Vintage series 57 RI. It laid waste tonally to every Custom shop I put it against (including mine), but the tiny frets, 7.25 radius neck, and thick sticky finish just made it to hard to play. Now my guitar has the fat 50s pups, which many other CS guitars at this one place had, and they are hotter than the regular Custom shop 50s pups. The pups in the production 57/62 RIs are suppose to be low output, and around the same as the "normal" CS 50s version. Why and how then, did the guitar have about 10-20% more output, just as much treble bass and mids, and were every bit as clear or clearer than the "higher output" versions? (same string gauge, and about the same pup height). As I said, i just ordered a set of don Mare super Sports, but it was a very hard thing to go with them instead of a set of those 57/62 RI pups. For a long time (years ago), my main guitar was a Daphne blue 57RI, and I tried almost every pup made back then thinking I was going to get something that killed those stock fenders. I listened after I changed them, and made elaborate clips comparing each set of pups, playing the exact same chords and licks. I remember really digging a set of Duncan Alnico 2s, but I ended up with the stock pups. They sounded better than anything else i tried, and my more than a small margin. I can get that 57 in Surf green (my favorite color ) brand new for around $11-1,200 because they are discontinuing them. I am still debating on whether to grab it because it was just a great guitar, or if fender just got those pups "right' the first time, and I should get a set of those. Regardless, that guitar was off the charts great. One of the best sounding Strats I have ever played in my life. Little neck, little frets, thick finish, and a tone that would blow you away.

Hey Gil,
I sold 2 US Standard strats to one of my employees years ago. They (His crew) just pulled in as they are done for the day, and I spoke with him about them. I had put in a set of texas specials in one of the guitars which he still has, and I gave him the stock pups along with it. He just told me he believes he still has them, and if he does, I am welcome to them for free! VERY GOOD, VERY GOOD!!!!!

EDIT:

UGHHH!!! I just realized those are not the pups I want. Its the VINTAGE RI pups, not the US standards.

[Max]

IMO one can find many great ("great" in the sense of "in good accord with this special kind and style of music") examples in the entire world of music and in Greg’s thread http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 192#127192 of Strat-style single coil sounds achieved with many different Dumble ODS amps of AFAIR many different generations. Just some few examples:

Steve Farris, Eric Johnson, Robben Ford, Larry Carlton, SRV, Tom Verlaine (see attached picture), John Mayer, Ry Cooder, Carlos Rios, Jeff Pevar, David Williams, Sonny Landreth, Bonnie Raitt, Charly Bonat, Lowell George, Danny Kortchmar, etc.

So perhaps it’s just a matter of personal taste and finding an amp, speaker cabinet, Strat, and setup etc. combination that’s in best accord with someone’s individual personal taste.

If you’re looking for the best "single coil into a Dumble sound" ever, then listen to the guy on the attached picture.

Cheers,

Max

[talbany]

Max
Now that you brought it up
To my knowledge most of the players on that list don't use (or have not really been known) to use a Strat in the overdrive channel through an ODS style amp with a Skyliner tone stack and the later 220k/100k OD trimmer..(what we are discussing)..Why do you think that is?
Larry's rig was so full of outboard gear when he was using his Valley Arts Strat I don't really consider that a fair comparison..Besides that was a low plate classic..
I don't even think Mayer uses his OD in the amp..Just his pedals..The last time I saw Robben use a Strat consistantly through his ODS was early on when it was still a low Plate Classic,although he might have used it here and there after the upgrade.
Lowell George 2nd Gen
SRV used SSS
Sonny Landreth HRM
Charley Bonet 1st generation I believe
Carlos Rios/Ben Harper Low Plate Classic
Toms Looks to be a Classic as well?.. Dunno
Steve Ferris Classic stack and god knows what else is in that amp!!
Ry Cooder Borderline Amp Low Plate Classic and EF86 Pentode amp SSS
The only cuts I know of Eric's ODS making a statement on was on Zap and he used his 335 for that one and do we even know what is in that amp?
So just perhaps other players out there are having the same issues some of us are having around here with respect to their Strats and the later high/low plate Skyliners?..Something to think about I guess!!

BTW..Like I mentioned in my last post.. IMO The Classic stack seems to be a bit more Strat friendly!!..At least to some of those players on that list might just agree..

Have A Great Day!

Tony

[CHIP]

What would be very interesting is to have MacDaddy do a clip with #183 and a Strat.

[phsyconoodler]

My latest strat is an American Special,ash body, w/texas specials,maple neck and 70's headstock and I was all prepared to swap out the texas specials but this guitar loves them!
Through my 183 circuit Overdrive Rocket amp it is divine!
I don't play distorted music with inbetween positions,only the single positions and the bridge pickup is especially nice.
I also run the clean volume high and use not so much mids or bass.
There is always an issue when dialing in a killer clean tone and then switching to overdrive,but a quick tweak on the tone knob on the guitar and it's good to go.
The bottom always drops out when switching from clean to drive,so lower volume gigs are best served with pedals,but if you play loud,it's all killer tone.
I find I prefer the amp with single coils.Teles are awesome with decent pickups like custom shop no-casters.
Teles are still better for higher gain settings but the strat shines when you back off the gain.

[tag101]

What would be very interesting is to have MacDaddy do a clip with #183 and a Strat.

I think I have quite a few of them on my soundclick site. Maybe not labeled as such however.

[tag101]

Teles are still better for higher gain settings but the strat shines when you back off the gain.

This is what really confuses me. Why does this seem to be the case? What is it that makes a tele bridge pup sound so great through a dumble, and a Strat bridge so weak and thin? Are tele Bridge pups basically hotter than Strats bridges?

[67plexi]

This Real Fender Stratocaster is fat sounding on the bridge pickup, Leo Fender hot pickup in the bridge on this one stock. Neck PU 6.5 ohm's, Mid.6.8 Ohm's, Bridge 7.25 Ohm's. I'm building a 150 watt SSS just for this guitar.
I'm not sure what the custom shop is up to in this regard.

[llemtt]

Are tele Bridge pups basically hotter than Strats bridges?

yes

[tag101]

This Real Fender Stratocaster is fat sounding on the bridge pickup, Leo Fender hot pickup in the bridge on this one stock. Neck PU 6.5 ohm's, Mid.6.8 Ohm's, Bridge 7.25 Ohm's. I'm building a 150 watt SSS just for this guitar.
I'm not sure what the custom shop is up to in this regard.

The Fender custom shop fat 50s pups are milder than that. The Don Mares I have coming are just about that in the neck and middle, and 7.3K in the Bridge, so they should be really close. 3 more weeks! His Tele pups are the best I have heard. The difference in my Nocatser before and after was amazing. I have never had that experience changing pups before. Hope his Strats are just as good. Once you go a little hotter than the above you start loosing chime and clarity IMO.

[tag101]

Are tele Bridge pups basically hotter than Strats bridges?

yes

Thanks. That explains it!

[Max]

To my knowledge most of the players on that list don't use (or have not really been known) to use a Strat in the overdrive channel through an ODS style amp with a Skyliner tone stack

Tony, yes, might be from what we know. But many of these players used 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generation amps with a "pre-classic" tone stack like this one http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12870. And IMO one could argue that – with the exception of the mid switch - the "pre-classic" tone stack of these amps is more similar to a "skyline" tone stack than to a "classic" tone stack.

and the later 220k/100k OD trimmer..(what we are discussing)..

AFAIU your layout of a typical transition generation and 4th generation "low plate classic" amp with a "standard" OD section http://ampgarage.com/forum/download/file.php?id=14346 these transition generation and 4th generation ODS amps played by many of the players in my list have "the later 220k/100k OD trimmer..(what we are discussing)...".

Larry's rig was so full of outboard gear when he was using his Valley Arts Strat I don't really consider that a fair comparison..

I referred to his use of a 60ies strat in combination with his later ODS amps. Obviously he liked this combination (but Gil e.g. disliked it AFAIR).

Besides that was a low plate classic..

IMO the tone of his "classic" amps remind me a bit more of "high plate classic" amps. But this is IMO speculating anyway. And as you know, there are at least two ODS amps with a "high plate classic" circuit (#0123 and its sister amp) that as far as we know have been custom built by Alexander Dumble especially for a strat player.

IMO The Classic stack seems to be a bit more Strat friendly!!

IMO this is just a matter of personal taste. Just look at my list with many players of 2nd and 3rd generation ODS amps with a "pre-classic" tone stack that IMO is more similar to a "skyline" tone stack than to a "classic" tone stack. My personal taste – just as an example - is of a kind that whenever I liked an original Dumble ODS amp very much, I always liked it in combination with all my guitars. I never met an original ODS that I only liked in combination with a Les Paul or ES335 and that I disliked with a Strat. But of course: this is just my individual personal taste.

All the best, Tony!

Max

[ericlee]

I think for the more rounder tone, the bridge pickup must be a humbucker with a coil split when one needs a single twang as well.
Here I’m playing a strat through the #102 OTS and it really sings with a bridge HB.
No D lator in the FX loop, just Digitech RP200.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFGr6XFf4jQ