Overdrive Special Still Not the Perfect Amp!

[talbany]

Anymore on this site and all of the other gear forums people constantly post there opinions!!..This is IMO a good thing to get some kind of frame of refrence..IMO most statements are just that!!..Opinions.
When we start to discuss things like bright caps,snubbers, Tubes,Speakers and cabs, Guitars,pickups (a big one) Cables,Amp and lator settings, Transformer types and to some extent parts selection, etc..
All of these and many more are all part of a system that interacts..Part of the problem with the Overdrive Special design is the clean feeds the OD so there is often a balancing act that happends, Also true when you plug in an effects loop, the character and functionality changes..
So with that said discussing many of these (what I call Tweak spots) ..
When we choose a certain speaker and cab,or guitar and many other things listed above we are tweaking our sound to our own personal taste (in a certain direction) and hearing (perception of hearing) All of this changes room to room and guitar to guitar!!..Especially true when we record the amp and post it online,so you get a general idea of how it sounds but only paints a small picture..
My point here is this!..The ODS is IMO not the perfect design!!
Not all guitars will sound good (both clean and OD).
Not all speakers will sound good (Clean and OD)
Some nights at gigs the amp will sound great in some rooms and not so great in others..(it could be YOU)..It will sound good on some recordings and in some just not fit!!..Some nights some guitars just seem to work and others not so well..Some nights the clean sounds great but the OD is not doing it for you..
If our immediate response is to start tweaking but this just tends to shift things in a different direction only to find out things still are STILL not perfect!
My approach is this..When I take a fresh amp out and find what it is that works (for me) What guitars sounds best (for me) and what the amp accells at..When I make a tweak I always think how it will effect both clean and OD and in what direction it takes me..An example of this might be like a higher value bright cap in mstr might sound great in clean w/lator but not so good in OD w/single coils Some amps will simply work with certain guitars and in certain rooms and volume levels and some styles..The longer you play the amp and it becomes a part of you the more you will be able to know which gigs to take it to,and when to use it and when not to use it
I have stopped trying to make this my perfect beat all end all amp and learn to compromise and not go Mad tweaking these Tweak spots!!

BTW..I think this is part of the reason why Dumble went to the HRM design!!..more control..
I hope this helps some of you out there searching!
Tony

[CHIP]

I think I understand where you're coming from Tony.
These ODS amps can sometimes get you chasing your tail with trying to find your perfect tone.
I dig the ODS tone, but...

When I gig I just take my 6G6b Bassman build. It's consistent and sounds good for everything my band plays. Takes pedals well too!

[10thTx]

Tony,

Some great wisdom & perspective in what you've shared. I appreciate the comments. I think you've right on in your perspective.

Once I got to more of a place of acceptance that there is always some compromise and variables that one can NOT completely control ........ I like to start evaluating my amp's tone by the degree I enjoy it. Sort of a different refernce point of measuring success for me.


With respect, 10thtx

[talbany]

I think I understand where you're coming from Tony.
These ODS amps can sometimes get you chasing your tail with trying to find your perfect tone.
I dig the ODS tone, but...

When I gig I just take my 6G6b Bassman build. It's consistent and sounds good for everything my band plays. Takes pedals well too!

Chip
Man I know what you mean!!..There are times when I don't want to fool with taking out 2 guitars and all the other stuff that makes up my OD Rig.When I can grab my Fralin or Super or one of My Marshall JTM builds and my Strat and a couple pedals (can always make that work)
I generally do this in rooms I am not familiar with to start.. Now when I walk into a room I know right off if it's ODS (Overdrive Special) friendly..Lol!
I'ts truly a wonderful thing when everything comes together that night with my ODS style..Last week I was in one of these rooms (crank it up) and the ODS 102 with the 339 was just KILLIN ME!!.. Didn't care about set breaks!! and the Strat stayed in the bag..

Tony

[martin manning]

When we start to discuss things like bright caps,snubbers, Tubes,Speakers and cabs, Guitars,pickups (a big one) Cables,Amp and lator settings, Transformer types and to some extent parts selection, etc.. All of these and many more are all part of a system that interacts...

Which is why this tweak or that tweak, or this tube, speaker, etc. is not necessarily the "100% improvement" or the "must have" that someone might claim it is. It might have made a big difference in that person's system, in their opinion, but it might not even be in the positive direction when applied to another person's system, or in their opinion. Don't get me wrong, I agree that there are consensus opinions on several major components that carry a lot of weight, and these are well worth paying attention to. Specific recommendations coming from people who are playing similar guitars in similar styles to yours are more likely to "work" for you, since their "systems" are similar.

[talbany]

When we start to discuss things like bright caps,snubbers, Tubes,Speakers and cabs, Guitars,pickups (a big one) Cables,Amp and lator settings, Transformer types and to some extent parts selection, etc.. All of these and many more are all part of a system that interacts...

Which is why this tweak or that tweak, or this tube, speaker, etc. is not necessarily the "100% improvement" or the "must have" that someone claims it is. It might have made a big difference in that person's system, in their opinion, but it might not even be in the positive direction when applied to another person's system, or in their opinion. Don't get me wrong, I agree that there are consensus opinions on several major components that carry a lot of weight, and these are well worth paying attention to, and specific recommendations coming from people who are playing similar guitars in similar styles are even more likely to "work" for you, since their "systems" are similar.

EXACTLY!!
The other thing is most people might not notice some of these changes..They just do them because others here might have recommended them..Not a bad thing!!. Just one hears it and the other won't..

Interesting thing!!. We delivered an amp to Jack Pearson and he can actually feel the time delay inside an amp..He was right because after he pointed it out we noticed it and figured out why!.. I have actually seen Jack use a Fender Squire and a Blues Jr (sitting 6ft away on floor) on a gig and (w/tube screamer) have the ability to call up feedback (and hold it for as long as he wants).So he can feel when the "system" wants to take off..Truly an amazing guy!!.. I thought I had pretty good ears..
Tony

[aflynt]

RE: Consistency... Has anyone else noticed that closed back or side-vented cabs are way more consistent sounding from room to room? I've been using these Forte 3D 1x12" closed back cabs and my rig never has that bad hard-reflection brightness to it anymore even in really live rooms. I also did the Mitchell Doughnuts and that's helped a whole lot too, though I do have to use much more high end.

-Aaron

[llemtt]

..The ODS is IMO not the perfect design!!...

I agree 100% but IMO the perfect design simply doesn't exist... the ODS to my needs is the "best compromise design" I know.

Lots of amps are way better than ODS delivering a single task but it would be impractical for lots of people to carry around, manage and even own more than one amp.

cheers
teo

[AtomCap]

Admittedly the ODS style amps cover allot of ground but they're not perfect in anyway shape or form. NO AMP IS IMHO...

Currently I'm in an original/cover band and have gigged a '68 Showman which I Dumblized and an ODS/124 build for about a year now. The results have been stellar with 3/4 of the guitars I use, of course neither of them soar as much with a low output Strat- but anything humbuckers and its almost perfect for my needs and the tone has been point on.

About 2 months ago I went on a witch hunt to start "Tweaking" and the more I tweaked, the more I hated the sound. The 124 went from a great sounding amp to "I'd rather gig my DR.Z and take a good od". So I went back to the stock posted values and left it be what it is and just added a boost pedal (klon) into the front end just to push it a bit more for leads, instead of trying to get more out of something thats NOT there....

In a live setting - each room is different, A standard practice I use is taking 2 different cabs to each gig, generally 1x12, one open, one sealed and give them a try before the set and figure out which is best for that room..

There is also a point where Mentally one worries more about gear/settings than playing and trying to harness whats available at that time.. If you hit that point, prepare to drive yourself crazy

[guitarpkr76]

Good stuff, Tony.


-Brenton

[pman]

I don't post very much, and I don't understand the electronics of it but superficially. I use a 50 watt 183 clone with a 112 Two Rock cab. I've played it outside ,inside , in different venues different volumes, and I never fail to get a great tone which other musicians often comment on positively. I don't switch guitars either. My tweaks are preamp tubes. No pedals.
It may not be a perfect amp but it's sure satisfying for me to play through. I would put it up against almost any other amp.

[67plexi]

I remember that Stevie Ray sent back 37 EVM12L speakers to EV claiming they were all defective
On to the ODS amps I only have one that I would consider stock and it sits on the shelf collecting dust.
The rest of the ODS builds are modified. My bench test speaker is a Jensen C12N if I can get my new
ODS build to sound good through that crap speaker then it's time to play speaker roulette.
My last ODS build I went through 10 speakers before I hit sonic bliss. And it was a EVM12S 300 watt.
Same thing applies to Drums I have gone through 141 high end snare drums and have one that does it
all and a back up same brand and size and heads it is the not the same.
I did a trade a few years back and ended up with 14 EVM12L speakers after more than a few times
around the world they all sucked tone wise. I had all of them re coned not one of speakers has the
same reading on my Fluke meter. My conclusion is everything is a compromise.

[tictac]

Not to change the subject but I just read some interesting stuff about the EVM12L speakers. It seems they suffer from a phenomina called "cone sag". Evidently due to the heavy voice coil used in these series speakers gravity will cause the cone to deform causing voice coil rub.

The recommended fix for this condition is to rotate the speaker every six months or store them lying flat when not in use. Obviously reconing is the only solution if this doesn't work.

I wonder if this could be one of the reasons why later in his career SRV played with his cabs laying on their back?

I have an EVM12L that worked fine but then started this "cone cry" sound; it's been in storage for a couple of years lying flat; maybe it'll work fine now....hmmmm....

TT
TT

[groovtubin]

Anymore on this site and all of the other gear forums people constantly post there opinions!!..This is IMO a good thing to get some kind of frame of refrence..IMO most statements are just that!!..Opinions.
When we start to discuss things like bright caps,snubbers, Tubes,Speakers and cabs, Guitars,pickups (a big one) Cables,Amp and lator settings, Transformer types and to some extent parts selection, etc..
All of these and many more are all part of a system that interacts..Part of the problem with the Overdrive Special design is the clean feeds the OD so there is often a balancing act that happends, Also true when you plug in an effects loop, the character and functionality changes..
So with that said discussing many of these (what I call Tweak spots) ..
When we choose a certain speaker and cab,or guitar and many other things listed above we are tweaking our sound to our own personal taste (in a certain direction) and hearing (perception of hearing) All of this changes room to room and guitar to guitar!!..Especially true when we record the amp and post it online,so you get a general idea of how it sounds but only paints a small picture..
My point here is this!..The ODS is IMO not the perfect design!!
Not all guitars will sound good (both clean and OD).
Not all speakers will sound good (Clean and OD)
Some nights at gigs the amp will sound great in some rooms and not so great in others..(it could be YOU)..It will sound good on some recordings and in some just not fit!!..Some nights some guitars just seem to work and others not so well..Some nights the clean sounds great but the OD is not doing it for you..
If our immediate response is to start tweaking but this just tends to shift things in a different direction only to find out things still are STILL not perfect!
My approach is this..When I take a fresh amp out and find what it is that works (for me) What guitars sounds best (for me) and what the amp accells at..When I make a tweak I always think how it will effect both clean and OD and in what direction it takes me..An example of this might be like a higher value bright cap in mstr might sound great in clean w/lator but not so good in OD w/single coils Some amps will simply work with certain guitars and in certain rooms and volume levels and some styles..The longer you play the amp and it becomes a part of you the more you will be able to know which gigs to take it to,and when to use it and when not to use it
I have stopped trying to make this my perfect beat all end all amp and learn to compromise and not go Mad tweaking these Tweak spots!!

BTW..I think this is part of the reason why Dumble went to the HRM design!!..more control..
I hope this helps some of you out there searching!
Tony

My quote: " For EVERY one tweak, there`s MORE tweaks to fix THAT tweak!" lololololololo!!

[groovtubin]

When we start to discuss things like bright caps,snubbers, Tubes,Speakers and cabs, Guitars,pickups (a big one) Cables,Amp and lator settings, Transformer types and to some extent parts selection, etc.. All of these and many more are all part of a system that interacts...

Which is why this tweak or that tweak, or this tube, speaker, etc. is not necessarily the "100% improvement" or the "must have" that someone claims it is. It might have made a big difference in that person's system, in their opinion, but it might not even be in the positive direction when applied to another person's system, or in their opinion. Don't get me wrong, I agree that there are consensus opinions on several major components that carry a lot of weight, and these are well worth paying attention to, and specific recommendations coming from people who are playing similar guitars in similar styles are even more likely to "work" for you, since their "systems" are similar.

EXACTLY!!
The other thing is most people might not notice some of these changes..They just do them because others here might have recommended them..Not a bad thing!!. Just one hears it and the other won't..

Interesting thing!!. We delivered an amp to Jack Pearson and he can actually feel the time delay inside an amp..He was right because after he pointed it out we noticed it and figured out why!.. I have actually seen Jack use a Fender Squire and a Blues Jr (sitting 6ft away on floor) on a gig and (w/tube screamer) have the ability to call up feedback (and hold it for as long as he wants).So he can feel when the "system" wants to take off..Truly an amazing guy!!.. I thought I had pretty good ears..
Tony

Dude says, amps too BRIGHT..i say TURN DOWN your guitar TONE knob!! lololo!!