Blues Deluxe to ODS #183 Thread

[pompeiisneaks]

I’d swear I heard the cat say: “Oh boy! Daddy dropped a toy for me to bat around!”

hehe yeah Jack would love a few loose capacitors

~Phil

[Guitarist]

I'm just new here so thought to say hello. I've been on Ampage for 15 years or so and it's a good forum as well. I have a Blues Deluxe reissue that I've modded over the years, basically as far as it go. It still doesn't deliver. I've modded a number of amp types over the years mainly around Vancouver but now I live in the country next to the clean and pristine Kootenay Lake in BC.
For many years, I've been fascinated with Dumbles and other amps. So I'm here due to, gladly and thankfully, seeing that you've made a KILLER board! That is so fully cool and enabling for the aspiring player and furrowed-eyebrowed solder alike myself.
Among other things, thanks "Frenchy" for the videos and sorry for your editing troubles. I hope you get your squealing figured. It could be that you're OT wires got reversed so as the amp now gets positive feedback. If I can, I use twisted pair with shield for signal runs (pseudo balanced) or just shielded. Which may sound to be more Dumble-jumbo;) But you seem experienced so likely of these sort of things anyways. I was at a jam recently and a fellow used speaker cable going into an amp. This picked up mucho noise but hearing that showed how much shielding actually helps.
I would miss that reverb though...
Pardon but, is the effects loop buffered?

[pompeiisneaks]

I'm just new here so thought to say hello. I've been on Ampage for 15 years or so and it's a good forum as well. I have a Blues Deluxe reissue that I've modded over the years, basically as far as it go. It still doesn't deliver. I've modded a number of amp types over the years mainly around Vancouver but now I live in the country next to the clean and pristine Kootenay Lake in BC.
For many years, I've been fascinated with Dumbles and other amps. So I'm here due to, gladly and thankfully, seeing that you've made a KILLER board! That is so fully cool and enabling for the aspiring player and furrowed-eyebrowed solder alike myself.
Among other things, thanks "Frenchy" for the videos and sorry for your editing troubles. I hope you get your squealing figured. It could be that you're OT wires got reversed so as the amp now gets positive feedback. If I can, I use twisted pair with shield for signal runs (pseudo balanced) or just shielded. Which may sound to be more Dumble-jumbo;) But you seem experienced so likely of these sort of things anyways. I was at a jam recently and a fellow used speaker cable going into an amp. This picked up mucho noise but hearing that showed how much shielding actually helps.
I would miss that reverb though...
Pardon but, is the effects loop buffered?

No it's a simple unbuffered effects loop.

There are many different kinds of loops people sell that can tie in pretty easily to any amp, a metro loop etc. One of those might fit the bill. I've not yet tried out the loop to see if I see any specific problems with it. Nowadays many pedals come with a buffer to help combat loss, or you can just use a buffer pedal in your loop as well. Doesn't perfectly resolve the tone suck of a passive loop, but it helps.

Thanks for your comments, much appreciated!

~Phil

[norburybrook]

I'm just new here so thought to say hello. I've been on Ampage for 15 years or so and it's a good forum as well. I have a Blues Deluxe reissue that I've modded over the years, basically as far as it go. It still doesn't deliver. I've modded a number of amp types over the years mainly around Vancouver but now I live in the country next to the clean and pristine Kootenay Lake in BC.
For many years, I've been fascinated with Dumbles and other amps. So I'm here due to, gladly and thankfully, seeing that you've made a KILLER board! That is so fully cool and enabling for the aspiring player and furrowed-eyebrowed solder alike myself.
Among other things, thanks "Frenchy" for the videos and sorry for your editing troubles. I hope you get your squealing figured. It could be that you're OT wires got reversed so as the amp now gets positive feedback. If I can, I use twisted pair with shield for signal runs (pseudo balanced) or just shielded. Which may sound to be more Dumble-jumbo;) But you seem experienced so likely of these sort of things anyways. I was at a jam recently and a fellow used speaker cable going into an amp. This picked up mucho noise but hearing that showed how much shielding actually helps.
I would miss that reverb though...
Pardon but, is the effects loop buffered?

No it's a simple unbuffered effects loop.

There are many different kinds of loops people sell that can tie in pretty easily to any amp, a metro loop etc. One of those might fit the bill. I've not yet tried out the loop to see if I see any specific problems with it. Nowadays many pedals come with a buffer to help combat loss, or you can just use a buffer pedal in your loop as well. Doesn't perfectly resolve the tone suck of a passive loop, but it helps.

Thanks for your comments, much appreciated!

~Phil

Phil,


The buffered FX loop isn't the same thing as a buffer in a pedal, it's to do mainly with level matching /gain staging rather than tone loss, although that comes into it as well.


M

[xtian]

If you want reverb or delay, throw a pedal(s) in the loop, no problem, sounds great. (I'm a co-creator of this PCB.)

[pompeiisneaks]

I'm just new here so thought to say hello. I've been on Ampage for 15 years or so and it's a good forum as well. I have a Blues Deluxe reissue that I've modded over the years, basically as far as it go. It still doesn't deliver. I've modded a number of amp types over the years mainly around Vancouver but now I live in the country next to the clean and pristine Kootenay Lake in BC.
For many years, I've been fascinated with Dumbles and other amps. So I'm here due to, gladly and thankfully, seeing that you've made a KILLER board! That is so fully cool and enabling for the aspiring player and furrowed-eyebrowed solder alike myself.
Among other things, thanks "Frenchy" for the videos and sorry for your editing troubles. I hope you get your squealing figured. It could be that you're OT wires got reversed so as the amp now gets positive feedback. If I can, I use twisted pair with shield for signal runs (pseudo balanced) or just shielded. Which may sound to be more Dumble-jumbo;) But you seem experienced so likely of these sort of things anyways. I was at a jam recently and a fellow used speaker cable going into an amp. This picked up mucho noise but hearing that showed how much shielding actually helps.
I would miss that reverb though...
Pardon but, is the effects loop buffered?

No it's a simple unbuffered effects loop.

There are many different kinds of loops people sell that can tie in pretty easily to any amp, a metro loop etc. One of those might fit the bill. I've not yet tried out the loop to see if I see any specific problems with it. Nowadays many pedals come with a buffer to help combat loss, or you can just use a buffer pedal in your loop as well. Doesn't perfectly resolve the tone suck of a passive loop, but it helps.

Thanks for your comments, much appreciated!

~Phil

Phil,


The buffered FX loop isn't the same thing as a buffer in a pedal, it's to do mainly with level matching /gain staging rather than tone loss, although that comes into it as well.


M

So if I'm understanding that right, a buffer isn't a buffer, unless it's a buffer? Someone help me

~Phil

[JazzGuitarGimp]

Phil, you are correct; a buffer is a buffer, which is a unity gain amplifier that lowers the source impedance of a signal. I think norbury may be confusing a buffer with a recovery amplifier.

[erwin_ve]

Phil, you are correct; a buffer is a buffer, which is a unity gain amplifier that lowers the source impedance of a signal. I think norbury may be confusing a buffer with a recovery amplifier.

Yes correct, but you don't want a 100Vpp signal coming to the fx loop hit your 9v powered buffer. Poofffffff.....

[JazzGuitarGimp]

While I see your point, Erwin, I can also state that I have never heard of anyone destroying a 9V powered pedal by using it in a passive effects loop. I can also state that, at lease for the pedals I have designed, a clamping circuit was employed at the input jack to prevent such damage. It’s just good engineering practice. And since it is possible to connect a guitar cable from the speaker output of a 100W+ amp to the input of an effects pedal, which would also make a Poofffff, it just makes sense to include a clamp circuit as it only increases the product’s manufacturing cost by the price of one small resistor and two small diodes.

Cheers,
Lou

[norburybrook]

Phil, you are correct; a buffer is a buffer, which is a unity gain amplifier that lowers the source impedance of a signal. I think norbury may be confusing a buffer with a recovery amplifier.

Yes, I was really meaning the difference between a buffered loop like a Dumbleator and a buffered pedal. The buffered loop will have level controls . Using the passive loop even with a buffered FX pedal can still cause tonal and level issues, otherwise no one would use a dumbleator or a buffered loop , I Know that using the passive Dumble loop into pedals kills your tone regardless of buffered pedals.


p.s. Lou , yes you wont destroy a 9v pedal but they sound like shit without the proper gain staging/matching of a Dumbleator.


M

[JazzGuitarGimp]

I Know that using the passive Dumble loop into pedals kills your tone regardless of buffered pedals.

This has not been my experience.

p.s. Lou , yes you wont destroy a 9v pedal but they sound like shit without the proper gain staging/matching of a Dumbleator.

Gain staging is an important ingredient to getting great sound from any effects processor; it goes without saying. To that end, both preamp channels of the BM have a level control just before the relay that selects the Clean or OD channel, thus allowing for gain staging.

[norburybrook]

I Know that using the passive Dumble loop into pedals kills your tone regardless of buffered pedals.

This has not been my experience.

p.s. Lou , yes you wont destroy a 9v pedal but they sound like shit without the proper gain staging/matching of a Dumbleator.

Gain staging is an important ingredient to getting great sound from any effects processor; it goes without saying. To that end, both preamp channels of the BM have a level control just before the relay that selects the Clean or OD channel, thus allowing for gain staging.

Lou,

If I could plug FX pedals straight into any of my 'Dumble's' loop and it sounded fine I'd be more than happy. I'm building at the moment and because I want a grab and go without having a Dumbleator I'm having to build it in which is a tight fit

Honestly I've tried but passive FX loops don't seem to work for me, I really wish it wasn't so. At low volumes /clean it's OK but as soon as you start on the OD with some gain it all falls apart.


YMMV

[stelligan]

Not to derail - but if you can find an old one of these, you'll be a happy camper. Takes the non buffered loop(has level switch on back) and sounds like a champ. With a parallel mixer - even more gooder. Have done many a gig with an ODS and one of these...

[JazzGuitarGimp]

I Know that using the passive Dumble loop into pedals kills your tone regardless of buffered pedals.

This has not been my experience.

p.s. Lou , yes you wont destroy a 9v pedal but they sound like shit without the proper gain staging/matching of a Dumbleator.

Gain staging is an important ingredient to getting great sound from any effects processor; it goes without saying. To that end, both preamp channels of the BM have a level control just before the relay that selects the Clean or OD channel, thus allowing for gain staging.

Lou,

If I could plug FX pedals straight into any of my 'Dumble's' loop and it sounded fine I'd be more than happy. I'm building at the moment and because I want a grab and go without having a Dumbleator I'm having to build it in which is a tight fit

Honestly I've tried but passive FX loops don't seem to work for me, I really wish it wasn't so. At low volumes /clean it's OK but as soon as you start on the OD with some gain it all falls apart.


YMMV

And your mileage could be a result of the type of effects you’ve got in your loop. For example, if your first processor in the loop is a high-level studio-grade unit, its input impedance could range anywhere from a few thousand ohms to about 100K-ohms. Even at the upper end, 100K-ohms, a passive loop won’t have a low-enough output impedance to properly drive that input to full bandwidth; there will be a noticeable loss in high frequency information. And the lower the processors’
input impedance, the worse the HF loss will be. On the other hand, if the first processor in your loop is a stompbox, it will have a minimum 1M-ohm input impedance, because it is expected to have a guitar plugged into it. And at 1M-ohms input impedance, the HF loss will range anywhere from unnoticeable to slightly noticeable.

[Guitarist]

The best tone would likely be had by mic'ing the cab and then sending that to delay/reverb and monitoring that blended into your (vocal) monitor. It's just more work and gear.
As is, inserting your unit may cause some loss of highs but any reverb circuit usually has been made rather lo-fi anyways- no lows and darker highs. So that's going for us here.
There are lots of available boards out there if you can fit them in and get them powered. But alas, being a bit of a baby, I gotta have delay at least and played-in rooms add some reverb.

I have hung a rack off the back of an amp but there are some big-signal delays out there. That Yamaha is cool too. I have a TC Electronics ND-1 which can be had for $120 used. It was a rack unit made into a pedal.

'appreciate the fine work making that pcb!