Fuchs Dumble Clone

[Charlie Wilson]

What the... You posted a picture of an ad from Reverb.com showing an amp for sale by Fuchs that was illegally using a trademark owned by someone else and now you are apologizing for the "grief" you/we put Andy through. Now I have seen it all.
CW

[Smitty]

Yep. I thought we could have discussion regarding ethics but you wanted to judge instead. Our interests are clearly divergent. I'm not disagreeing with you just not interested in judging. IMHO your comments are off topic.

[drew]

We got a courtesy cease and desist request from Fuchs because we used the abbreviation O.D.S when describing this amp. I cannot remember exactly how we worded it? I think it went something like an affordable O.D.S inspired design from the later H.R.M models (Something like that). We wanted to distinguish it from an earlier (Non HRM) model in our description, This was back in 2006/7 time frame.

https://www.vvtamps.com/portfolio/xmodel/

I don't know? our amp doesn't look like an Overdrive Supreme or an Overdrive Special and how someone could get them confused?.. We changed the wording to "D-Style" and complied with his request.

Tony

Wow, I don't even remember this...lol. My trademark attorney can be a bit of a pittbull, that's for sure.

Lucky for you, Dumble's is not.
CW

He wouldn’t, or couldn’t, part with twenty bucks or whatever GoDaddy would have charged to register the domain name, and somebody said Eric Clapton had to buy him a table saw. This doesn’t sound like a guy who has a trademark attorney on retainer.

[FUCHSAUDIO]

For the record, Dumble has a trademark on "Dumble" (two actually) period.
There are no other marks in his name that I could find.

www.uspto.gov is your friend.

[Charlie Wilson]

For the record, Dumble has a trademark on "Dumble" (two actually) period.
There are no other marks in his name that I could find.

www.uspto.gov is your friend.

Now we are getting into sleaze bag territory.
CW

[Danmerica5150]

Since nobody wants to ask Andy the obvious question here then I will. If it’s ok to slap Dumble’s name on an “obviously” not Dumble amp. Then I guess it would be fine for me or whoever to slap a Fuchs badge on an “obviously” not Fuchs amp and sell a few on reverb?

[ChopSauce]

Yep. I thought we could have discussion regarding ethics but you wanted to judge instead. Our interests are clearly divergent. I'm not disagreeing with you just not interested in judging. IMHO your comments are off topic.

Your own humble opinion?

As we're sharing opinions: you started a topic pretending to naïvely ask it is right to be a liar (somewhat, excuse my poor english) and you also stated "no haters" ...

(so you can't pretend you did not thought about what could happen)

... no kidding, also?

Well, next time I'll fire a propane torch I'll tell it "don't burn!" ...

I know about some forums were provocation is routine, HAD treated very badly, and moderators not what they should, but this used to be a forum of gentlemen and it deserves more than this kind of subject - I think.

[sds1]

Since nobody wants to ask Andy the obvious question here then I will. If it’s ok to slap Dumble’s name on an “obviously” not Dumble amp. Then I guess it would be fine for me or whoever to slap a Fuchs badge on an “obviously” not Fuchs amp and sell a few on reverb?

Does Reverb even allow counterfeit items?

Wondering what their policy is on such things. I would imagine counterfeits would be forbidden to sell but this thread kinda proves otherwise?

[Charlie Wilson]

Reverb's policy is that the owner of the trademark has to request the listing be removed and show proof of ownership of said trademark. Fuchs knows that Dumble won't, for whatever reason contest it, so the listing stays. My original post was not intended to go after Fuchs but that people in general should not be using trademarks owned by other people, period. However, after all of the posts that have come afterward, yeah I am going to say "scumbag".
CW

[sds1]

Reverb's policy is that the owner of the trademark has to request the listing be removed and show proof of ownership of said trademark.

Ah. This is pretty consistent with modern internet times, IP violations are addressed on the backend via "takedown" requests.

In the USA you own the rights to a trademark simply by using it in commerce. So Dumble owns all rights to his various trademark(s) whether they are registered with USPTO or not. By proving before a judge first use in commerce he would 100% prevail in any legal proceeding regarding his rights those marks.

But Reverb isn't a judge. The problem becomes when a company like Reverb asks for proof of trademark ownership as part of a takedown request. They are going to want to see that trademark registration. Anything less I reckon they likely may not the takedown request.

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Reverb's policy is that the owner of the trademark has to request the listing be removed and show proof of ownership of said trademark.

Ah. This is pretty consistent with modern internet times, IP violations are addressed on the backend via "takedown" requests.

In the USA you own the rights to a trademark simply by using it in commerce. So Dumble owns all rights to his various trademark(s) whether they are registered with USPTO or not. By proving before a judge first use in commerce he would 100% prevail in any legal proceeding regarding his rights those marks.

But Reverb isn't a judge. The problem becomes when a company like Reverb asks for proof of trademark ownership as part of a takedown request. They are going to want to see that trademark registration. Anything less I reckon they likely may not the takedown request.

Well, the fact there is no actual filed trademark, it might have been difficult. They have taken down 'new' Fulltone sales due to Mike Fuller's political rants on social media, although you can sell a used Fulltone it appears. They routinely sell KOT clones that look exactly like Analogue Mike builds. Again, remember: Dumble is a private entity, not a company and is legally non-confrontational. FWIW: There are others making amps with "Overdrive Special" on them freely, not being chased legally or otherwise by Dumble or the TAG vigilante posse. Those amps are called "homages"...and nobody seems to really say anything about those...but okay.

Once again, this was well over a year ago and the whole event has come and gone. There might actually be a handful more out there sold in dark alleys in trench coats..but don't stay awake at night about it. Maybe all this yacking will raise the prices on these ?

Perhaps you potty-mouth aspiring lawyers could go build some amps or build a business and move on ? Perhaps the mods will recognize this horse is dead and buried and lock this silly thread ?

[Colossal]

Done.