Help choosing the right schematic / model for the job

[automaton11]

Looking for some help from you guys. I've been trying to avoid making a spammy 'help me' post by parsing through this and some other forums for a long while looking for the relevant information but I'm starting to get a bit lost and I suspect a direct question here might get me where I need to be.

As it turns out, I was a huge fan of Dumble amps years before I ever heard the name Dumble. What eventually lead me to the discovery was John Mayer's performance of Gravity at the 2007 Crossroads Festival, and specifically the lead tone for his epic outro solo. The tone is compressed and harmonically rich with harmonic overtones and sustain that would come from a distorted sound, yet it is at once very clean. Its the 'best of both worlds' tone that is characteristically Dumble.

I'm ready to take on a Dumble amp build and I want to build something that does that thing. So what do I build? From my research, I've seen some conflicting information. Apparently, Steel String Singer #004 is associated with that specific performance, but SSS #004 is finished in blue suede, and I don't recall seeing any blue suede amplifiers on stage in the video of the Crossroads festival. You can see two Two-Rock amplifiers on stage - one is JM's signature model and the other is apparently either a Custom Reverb Signature or a Silver Sterling Signature. The third amp is a Dumble. I've seen it claimed that its Dumble SSS #004, and I've seen it claimed that its an Overdrive Special. To my eye, it looks very much like it says Overdrive Special. It is certainly not blue suede.

To complicate things further, I've also read that John Mayer does not use the overdrive channel of the Overdrive Special, that he only uses the clean channel of those amps, and uses pedals for gain. I've read that the Steel String Singers are basically single channel versions of the clean channel of an ODS anyway (I imagine this is somewhat reductive though), so maybe his using an ODS vs a SSS doesn't matter so much?

My first inclination was to build an ODS. Then I began to think that building an SSS would be more appropriate for a tone like that, whereas the ODS produces a more 'obviously distorted' kind of sound. Then I read stuff saying that the SSS is extremely clean all the way up, and that didn't really sound right either - if you listen to the JM solo I'm using as an example, there's definitely harmonic overtones, compression, and sustain that point to some very subtle and tasteful distortion characteristics. I wouldn't want to build a SSS to find that it was incapable of doing that, as beautiful as the cleans are.

So if someone reading this sorta gets what I'm going for or has any information as to what JM was using for that lead tone, be it ODS drive channel, SSS #004, a Two Rock Silver Sterling Signature clean tone with a pedal, or could point me in the direction of the right schematic for the job and the tone, that would be very very helpful.

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance,

-automaton

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EDIT 1: I'm adding some links to the performance in question in case anyone wants to listen.

Here's the whole song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su7eJ9sKOHg

Same video but starts at the solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su7eJ9sKOHg&t=4m

Song from another recording with better video. You can see the backline / amps used around 10 seconds in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNixUyXCt7w

[alnight]

I have not seen the performance in question, but the sound that you describe is something I would most equate with a high plate skyline ODS. Maybe listen to some Robben Ford and see if that's similar to what you're after. His amp is well documented.

[automaton11]

I have not seen the performance in question, but the sound that you describe is something I would most equate with a high plate skyline ODS. Maybe listen to some Robben Ford and see if that's similar to what you're after. His amp is well documented.

Thanks for the reply. I sort of associate Robin Ford's tone with a bit of a creamier, more 'on the nose' gain sound, like proper gain, but I will go back and listen again more intently. What I'm looking for is more of a transparent clean tone with overdrive harmonics sort of sound. But maybe you're right, I will listen.

You should def check out the performance, its worth a listen. I'm going to edit in a few links in my original post. The first is the whole song (bad video good audio), second link will start at the solo I'm describing (end of the song), and third is ok audio, good video with decent views of the rig.

[award70]

I bet you could get that sound with an ODS or a SSS. It’s super saturated and sounds like he’s got a couple of overdrive pedals on. At 5:40 he goes into a lick that is very SRV sounding which tilts things toward a SSS with a tube screamer. It’s also close to Eric Clapton’s solo sound on Forever Man and I don’t think Clapton was using dumbles then.

[dbharris]

Mayer often gets new head cabs made to tour with his Dumble amps. He put SSS 004 in a black tolex cab. He does only use the clean channel when he plays through an ODS live. He does run boost and overdrive pedals in front of those amps too. In that clip it looks like his 2 two rocks and an ODS that had been reported to be an EL-34 high plate skyline amp.

All that aside, if you want the instant Mayer tone, the best and easiest amp build (still not very simple) is the two rock JM Signature clone or what we call here, The Wonderland.

Good luck!

-Dan

[dorrisant]

Mayer often gets new head cabs made to tour with his Dumble amps. He put SSS 004 in a black tolex cab. He does only use the clean channel when he plays through an ODS live. He does run boost and overdrive pedals in front of those amps too. In that clip it looks like his 2 two rocks and an ODS that had been reported to be an EL-34 high plate skyline amp.

All that aside, if you want the instant Mayer tone, the best and easiest amp build (still not very simple) is the two rock JM Signature clone or what we call here, The Wonderland.

Good luck!

-Dan

I can attest to this... That circuit is King!

[automaton11]

Thanks for the replies guys. I meant to come back earlier but I ended up having a kidney stone issue and it took me out for a while. Kidney stone surgery is not fun (and I have to go back for round 2...oof)

Anyway very helpful responses. I looked around the forum and as far as the JM signature circuit goes, is it the Amplified Nation Wonderland layout I'm looking for? That could be the move! I honestly can't decide and I'm still trying to learn some of the dumble amp terminology and get it all straight so I can make an informed decision.

To that end, I have been working on a little project of my own to start to organize some of this information. If it ends up being something of value I may open it up to the community, if that's something people would like. But I digress.

The Robin Ford amp (#102, right?) does have some characteristics that match what I'm aiming at, and maybe it does do what I want. Many clips tend to show it doing a higher gain creamy thing, where I'm looking for a tone that sort of chameleons between clean and distorted - clean with distortion-oid harmonics, but without crunch and fuzz. My understanding is that this is a sort of SSS type of thing, but most of the SSS clips I pull up on youtube are not doing this. They sound like great clean amps, but I'm not hearing the 'harmonic sustain.' Maybe that's due to volume, speaker, etc?

I found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHrU9RZ8ud0 which sounds pretty close to what I'm after, dunno if anyone can associate that sound with a known schematic. Like I said, I'm still listening to a lot of stuff and learning what sounds like what etc

Thanks again yall