Getting that Dumble or D Clone Tone?

[Bob-I]

The EVM 12L classic is available all over for under $200. Another decent choice is the Emi Delta-pro 12A which is typically just over $100.

[mat]

First off, Clips won't tell you ANYTHING.

The Type III has 2 GZ34 rectifiers, which will add a pretty significant amount of Sag. The Newer Two-Rock amps that have the Cut control are running the presence full blast (390r is bypassed with 1uf) and then have a vox style cut control (.0047/250K pot).

So you can try that, but if it were me, I'd change your Iron, and add a choke.

FWIW, the Guitar solo on Michael Jackson's "Beat-IT" is Eddie Van Halen playing a Dumble, doesn't sound a thing like a Dumble to me Sure sounds like EVH though!

What is the benefit of using two rectifiers ? What the other one is used for ?

mat

[mlp-mx6]

Actually, unless the rectifiers are in series, 2 GZ34 rectifiers will have half the sag of one. And the GZ34 has the least sag of any of the common tube rectifiers.

[lbradshaw]

A whole topic on the BM:

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3344

Thanks for the info. It's helpful.

Sorry for the double post.

[Structo]

I ordered a EVM 12L Classic from AMS.
Should get it later this week.

By the way, I changed the title to the thread from Two Rock to D Clone because it was necesarily the Two Rock tone that I liked but just that Dumble overdrive tone that I am trying to get.

I'm thinking also it has a lot to do with way you have your front controls set as well.

[lbradshaw]

I ordered a EVM 12L Classic from AMS.
Should get it later this week.

It will be interesting to see what you think.

[jspax7]

I ordered a EVM 12L Classic from AMS.
Should get it later this week.

By the way, I changed the title to the thread from Two Rock to D Clone because it was necesarily the Two Rock tone that I liked but just that Dumble overdrive tone that I am trying to get.

I'm thinking also it has a lot to do with way you have your front controls set as well.

Speakers make a huge difference! I played a Fuchs through a RWB, Jensen Jet, and 2 Tonkers. My least favorite were the Tonkers. Too scooped, and lacking in the mid frequencies.

I use a RWB in my Fuchs, and a 1265 in my D'Lite. The 1265 has the upper mid thang that brings out the chirp in my D'Lite. My Fuchs was re-voiced (Hand Tuned) and the 1265 sounded "honky" so I stayed with the RWB. Since that's what Andy uses, I suspect he voices his amps with either EV's or RWB's.

IMO, there's a good reason why most guys use EV's or 1265's.

I've heard your clips, (sounds real good, btw) and it sounds like you've done pretty much everything with the circuit. Speakers may be all that's left...

[Structo]

I got the EVM12L Classic on Wednesday.
I had tracked the package through UPS and at 6am it said "Out for Delivery"!

So I hung around the house all day praying it would come before the wife got home from work........nope.
The truck came at 8:00PM!

Sheesh I thought the Christmas rush was over.

Anyway, I installed the speaker on Thursday.
I tried it by itself and with the Tonkerlite.
The Tonker came out. Then I tried just the EVM speaker. Pretty good for a new speaker.

I looked up all the specs for the other speakers I have on hand and decided to put the CL80 clone back in to pair it with the EVM.

That is the best combo I have right now.

And I also realized something else now that I have at least one great speaker. The cab I am using is crap.
It is a Lopo open back 2x12. I think it is too small and resonates too much.
Just kind of a buzzy tone especially in the low registers.
It was an inexpensive cab and has the value of what I paid which wasn't much.

So now I will either build a cab or try to find a good one down the rode.
Thinking possibly about a ported or Thiele cab.

But the one thing I hear now that I have a decent speaker is that the bass response of this amp needs to be adjusted. I had the cab up on a table so that the bass wouldn't be artificially enhanced by being on the floor against a wall.
When the amp is cranked up the bass kind of sounds loose and flabby.
The cab may be inducing a lot of that so not sure what to do.
But I will change the lone 10uf bypass cap on CL2 to 5uf and install the resistor on the input of the PI to see if that helps.

What do you guys think of some of those older Boogie cabs with the ports on the bottom?

Never ending quest for tone......

[Structo]

BTW, what are your guys opinion of the DELTA PRO-12A?


It appears to only come in 8 ohms.

That sucks, I'd like to pair my EVM12L with another 16 ohm.

I know, I know, buy another EVM12L.....................

[scotto]

I have found that the EV pairs nicely with either a Greenback or a 12-65. I have the Greenback and EV combo in a 2X12 Avator cab that sounds very good. I also play through 2 separate cabs (used together) that have an EV and 12-65 in them. FWIW the 12-65 took considerable break-in before it sounded really good. If I play someplace small, the single EV goes along because it sounds good at very low volume.

[doveman]

I have the EVM12L in a Brown Note open back 1x12 ... the compact one. I've been playing around running it with another cab ... me 2x10 Emi 105. But it actually sounds better alone. Since the 33w D'Lite can't throw anything at it the EVM can't handle ... not even close ... I might just use a 1x12.

Now a 16 ohm would hold the amp back a bit versus an 8 ohm but I would consider another EVM 16 ohm ... or a 1x12 cab.

For 25 years, I've been walking on stage with a 60w/100w Boogie 1x12 with an EVM12L and having it handle everything I threw at it. The guys with the 4x12 always asked me what the hell was in there.

With this 1x12 EVM12L, I'm pretty jazzed about running it alone right now. Nice look ... both the amp and cab are the official Brown Note. Even though it's heavy, it's not as heavy as the one I have pictured in my other post since this one doesn't have the heavy heat sinks. So it's still easier to get around.

[Structo]

OK, yesterday I opened the amp back up and changed the lone 10uf cap on CL2 to 5uf. Now all bypass caps are 5uf.

I also added a 100K resistor to the input of the PI ahead of the .02uf cap.

I changed the treble cap back to 270pf from 330pf.

I haven't installed the choke yet since that will be major surgery and I have heard conflicting opinions about the benefit of a choke vs power resistor there. Currently I have a 330R there.

I also adjusted the OD trimmer to 26K to ground. I think it was set at around 19K before.

I played the amp this morning but I had to keep the volume down since the wifey was here.

A while back I also put the jumper back on the bass pot and it is switched off when the PAB relay is turned on.

So far I really like what I am hearing. The tone has really improved from what it was.

Hopefully when I crank it up a bit it will still sound marvelous.
The amp seems much smoother.

I still have to tweak the preamp voltages a bit since I think they're a little on the high side. I just have to choose which resistor in the string to mess with.

Like I said I paired the new EVM12L Classic with my WGS CL80 and they seem to work well together. Some day in the future I will get a better cab.
I do have an early 60's VOX 2x12 that is much bigger than the Lopo cab I have, so I may try that to see if a stouter/bigger cab helps.

I will update this when I can play it at gigging volume.

[stelligan]

BTW, what are your guys opinion of the DELTA PRO-12A?

My favorite 2 x 12 cab at the moment is an Avatar oval back loaded with a Delta Pro and a Warehouse CL80. Nice bottom and smooth OD tones with lots of highs. The Delta compares well in the lows & mids to an EV, highs are lacking a tad.
Clip of that cab here:
http://www.jonesin.org/Dave/blues.mp3
Comparison of Delta and EV here:
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ght=#59760

[Structo]

How do you like the Delta Pro?

It is often compared to the EVM12L.

But apparently the Delta Pro only come in 8 ohms.

[Bob-I]

I have a delta-pro12a in a thiele cab. I like it a lot. I compared it once to an EVM and I'd say it's close, but the EVM had better highs and was a tad more articulate.

I agree with you about the Lopo cab. They're a good value for the money, but when pushed hard they tend to come apart and lose definition. I use one at home with a WGS V30 and it sounds great until I hit a certian volume, then it just falls apart.

I have another cab from an ebay store called steel sound. Solid as a rock and inexpensive. It's a 2x12 half open back and I put 2 WGS speakers, a V30 and a G12H. Amazing combination.

The other great combination is in my Peavey 2x12 combo converted to an HRM, one Tonker and one Swamp Thang. The Tonker handles the low mids and bottom end and the Swamp thang has smooth rich highs.