Tuning the OD for humbuckers vs. single-coils

[mlp-mx6]

Right now my ODS REALLY prefers humbuckers. It has "the magic" with humbuckers. Not so much with single-coils. I have a hardtail Strat w/ Fralins, and it sounds okay, but I have to REALLY CRANK the gain controls just to get into overdrive, let alone into distortion. I can use PAB to get into the realm of distortion. However, both of my dual-humbucker guitars get it singing beautifully, especially on the bridge pickup.

What are your experiences in this regard?

[Robert]

I am equally frustrated by my CS 1955 Strat OD tones. Cleans aren't bad though. I figure you just can't have it setup for both. However, I would like to play with a Humbucker/Strat switch around the OD entrance. I tuned my amp with humbuckers and as I recall found some resistor values to be way over the top. Now that I think about it, they might have been just right for single coils had I tried. I haven't taken the time to quit tuning for the humbuckers yet to work on the single coils though.

[mat]

Very interesting thread ! I'm just starting to build my first clone and my main guitar is 3 single coil tele. I've built one with double humbuckers and am starting to build a les paul with two P90's.

It would be most cool to have a switch for SC's and humbuckers

[Normster]

I've been pondering the single vs. humbucker issue for my next build. Since I never use the FET input (and it's a pain to build) I thought about having hi-lo input jacks. No sure how to do it yet, but it can't be that hard. The other alternative might be to just tune the FET specifically for single coils.

[tonelab2]

Hello to all, I've been away on holidays.
Perhaps the Hi/low inputs could be set up similar to the standard 18watt
style, low input = single triode, hi input = twin triode.
The down side would be adding an extra 12ax7 though.

[ayan]

I've been pondering the single vs. humbucker issue for my next build. Since I never use the FET input (and it's a pain to build) I thought about having hi-lo input jacks. No sure how to do it yet, but it can't be that hard. The other alternative might be to just tune the FET specifically for single coils.

I'll share some of my experiences:

1. Normster, the FET input is a piece of cake to build compared to some of the other parts of the amp! However, I never use it myself.

2. A few years ago, I bought a couple of Audio Arts parametric EQs like that one Carlton used in the 80s with his Valley Arts Strat because I wanted "that sound." The EQ was it, period, the only thing is that adding it into my FX loop increased the noise floor a bit. Still, I would always use it with a Strat until I eventually took it out of the loop.

3. I was determined to get my amps to sound great with a Strat without the external EQ. I bought a Clapton Strat and played it, after a mandatory refret, but it wasn't happening either. As a last resort, I gutted the Strat and put a set of hand-me-down Kinman pickups that a friend gave me. I am not sure what model they are, the probably are the "blues" set or something like that. This is the first time I've really liked the way the Strat sounds through my amps. They are not gainy, so either humbuckers or even a Tele will generate a lot more overdrive, but the Kinmans sound fantastic.

So, rather than toying with new circuit mods, etc., you may want to consider getting some Kinmans instead. It's all in the midrange content they have, I believe, where they are more "even sounding," like a humbucker, while retaining a single coil sound.

Cheers,

Gil

[glasman]

I've been pondering the single vs. humbucker issue for my next build. Since I never use the FET input (and it's a pain to build) I thought about having hi-lo input jacks. No sure how to do it yet, but it can't be that hard. The other alternative might be to just tune the FET specifically for single coils.

I'll share some of my experiences:

1. Normster, the FET input is a piece of cake to build compared to some of the other parts of the amp! However, I never use it myself.

2. A few years ago, I bought a couple of Audio Arts parametric EQs like that one Carlton used in the 80s with his Valley Arts Strat because I wanted "that sound." The EQ was it, period, the only thing is that adding it into my FX loop increased the noise floor a bit. Still, I would always use it with a Strat until I eventually took it out of the loop.

3. I was determined to get my amps to sound great with a Strat without the external EQ. I bought a Clapton Strat and played it, after a mandatory refret, but it wasn't happening either. As a last resort, I gutted the Strat and put a set of hand-me-down Kinman pickups that a friend gave me. I am not sure what model they are, the probably are the "blues" set or something like that. This is the first time I've really liked the way the Strat sounds through my amps. They are not gainy, so either humbuckers or even a Tele will generate a lot more overdrive, but the Kinmans sound fantastic.

So, rather than toying with new circuit mods, etc., you may want to consider getting some Kinmans instead. It's all in the midrange content they have, I believe, where they are more "even sounding," like a humbucker, while retaining a single coil sound.

Cheers,

Gil

Hey Gil, Doesn't this also have a lot to do with the way the amp is voiced. I never thought any of my Strats sounded worth a crap with the Skyliner stack. But with the .047 mid cap, they were like heaven. (And I am pretty sure you use the .047 mid)

Just my opinion....

Gary

[Darkbluemurder]

I have a similar issue comparing the sound with my tele to humbucker guitars. With humbuckers it sings effortlessly even at medium gain levels. With the tele it is OK but not great. My next tries will be to rewire the F-tone stack with a D-tone stack, reshape the treble shift control and/or add a preamp boost control.

However if the sound is still too thin with the preamp boost I will face a major challenge. I could change the presence control to a cut control a la Vox AC 30 but that would take away the brilliance from the clean tone as well. So I would need to compensate the clean channel for that by additional bright caps but that's not something I really want to do.

[Zippy]

Very interesting thread ! I'm just starting to build my first clone and my main guitar is 3 single coil tele. I've built one with double humbuckers and am starting to build a les paul with two P90's.

It would be most cool to have a switch for SC's and humbuckers

I guess I'm hosed. I really like my G&L Bluesboy but it has a humbucker/SC setup that may prove my undoing with these more highly specific amps. Suggestions for dealing with this dilema? I was going to let the Bluesboy replace my '84-ish spruce-top Fender Elite Ultra but now I'm not so sure.

[Normster]

Hope I'm not stating the obvious, but I don't want my Strat (or Tele) to sound like my humbucker guitars. I rather like the crisp OD of single coils. However, it would be nice to voice the amp specifically to bring out the best in each type of pickup. Shucks, I'm even willing to reach over and crank up the gain a bit.

Gil, I guess the thing that makes the FET seem like a PITA to me is that I've never taken the time to understand how it works. It doesn't take any time to build for sure, but I hate staring at components and wondering what they do.

[mlp-mx6]

Normster, I agree with the fundamental of your statement. But, for me, here's what's so weird. The humbucker tone is SO singing, but the single-coil tone is barely into the realm of overdrive. To complicate it further, the humbuckers make it sing at what sounds like a relatively low distortion level, even crying in sweet feedback with the greatest of ease - again, without being cranked into square wave nastyland. It's the gain focus in the mids, methinks.

I understand that the difference in coil output (and perhaps, the impedance of the coils) is changing things - I just didn't expect the change to be quite so drastic. Perhaps what is going on here, especially with the Strat "parallel" positions, is that the mid-emphasis of the amp is battling the mid-scoop of the pickup selection, almost cancelling each other out, as it were. (positions 2 and 4 on the Strat) I get *some* of this effect with the 'buckers in the "both on" position in the middle. BTW, the Strat neck pickup alone sounds pretty righteous too. That is SUCH a toneful pickup selection!

[groovtubin]

Hope I'm not stating the obvious, but I don't want my Strat (or Tele) to sound like my humbucker guitars. I rather like the crisp OD of single coils. However, it would be nice to voice the amp specifically to bring out the best in each type of pickup. Shucks, I'm even willing to reach over and crank up the gain a bit.

Gil, I guess the thing that makes the FET seem like a PITA to me is that I've never taken the time to understand how it works. It doesn't take any time to build for sure, but I hate staring at components and wondering what they do.

Normster, what i learned in the Navy was that a FET is a SILICON version of a tube,( plate-cathode, input = drain-source-gate) but a VERY high input impedance and higher gain. This is iaw w/Navy Neets module #7 intro to solid state devices and power supplys. Glad i kept these things! lol! Man i`m telling you, the pix they show in fig 3-51 showing a simple schematic on how to use it looks EXACTLY like a Dumble FET!! lol!! The best amp i`ve heard( power amp) using mosfets, is that BK Butler stereo 80 watt per side thing, w/Engle 520 tube preamp it is so cool sounding! jim

[ayan]

Hey Gil, Doesn't this also have a lot to do with the way the amp is voiced. I never thought any of my Strats sounded worth a crap with the Skyliner stack. But with the .047 mid cap, they were like heaven. (And I am pretty sure you use the .047 mid)

Just my opinion....

Gary

Gary: as you know, I don't use the .047uF cap myself. To me, the Tele on the bridge sounds great with the Skyliner, but other than that, the Skyliner voicing is not of my liking. So my point was that even with the "early 80s" voicing, I found the Strat the hardest guitar to use with the amps, unless I used low gain. With the Kinmans, one can dial the gain up and use the PAB and it all sounds great.

Normster: as Jim said above, the FET circuit as implemented by Dumble is identical to a common cathode preamp stage.

Gil

[ayan]

Hey Gil, Doesn't this also have a lot to do with the way the amp is voiced. I never thought any of my Strats sounded worth a crap with the Skyliner stack. But with the .047 mid cap, they were like heaven. (And I am pretty sure you use the .047 mid)

Just my opinion....

Gary

Gary: as you know, I don't use the .047uF cap myself. To me, the Tele on the bridge sounds great with the Skyliner, but other than that, the Skyliner voicing is not of my liking. So my point was that even with the "early 80s" voicing, I found the Strat the hardest guitar to use with the amps, unless I used low gain. With the Kinmans, one can dial the gain up and use the PAB and it all sounds great.

Normster: as Jim said above, the FET circuit as implemented by Dumble is identical to a common cathode preamp stage.

Gil

Oops, that should have been I DO USE the .047uF middle cap!

Gil

[seulb-rd]

Right now my ODS REALLY prefers humbuckers. It has "the magic" with humbuckers. Not so much with single-coils.

i concur 100%. my current favorite guitar is a homebrew semi hollow body with rio grande telecaster pups. until last night i had been using it to try to dial in my ods. od tone had a glassy ringing quality. definitely NOT the r.f. sound i'm looking for. after reading this thread i plugged in my epi lp special: whoa buddy! big difference!. i don't have the tone i want yet, but i can see it's attainable. if had continued with the single coil axe i could have been chasing my tail indefinitely.