Steve Farris ODS #075

Overdrive Special, Steel String Singer, Dumbleland, Odyssey, Winterland, etc. -
Members Only

Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal

Post Reply
User avatar
jelle
Posts: 2391
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:55 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Steve Farris ODS #075

Post by jelle »

I'd love to but I cannot commit much time to it now. :oops: But I'll add some info here.

One question...how are we going to take into consideration that some of the amps were upgraded. I have seen a 70's chassis with full skyline high plate setup. :?: Also the mods to the 70's amps, voicings for specific guitar players....

There's the tmb 1M 250K 1M with the 10K bass tail and the james config (.002 and .02uf) with .1, .05 and 500pF mica with 100k slope.

There's versions of above with mixed 1M and 500K pots for Bass and treble, my guess is that these are mods for certain players, also the james config was altered.

There's the classic early 80's with TMB 250K, 100k, 250k with 1k bass tail, no cap across bass pot and .1, .05 and 270pF ceramic with 100k or 150K slope. I have the impression this was in the early amps too with 100K slope.

Stacks above have a deep switch.

Then in the late seventies, a 'Skyline' was observed in a 50W 70's amp according to a source. I have not seen the amp, just going by the info I received.
Then the classic stack prevailed for a while and was upgraded to Skyline specs which we all know. Bluesmaster specs are well known too.

Anyway, my point is that nowadays, due to all the factors mentioned above, we will observe many types of tonestacks in these silver chassis amps. But I may have answered some of your questions. :lol:


Hope this helps,

jelle
Max
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 6:08 pm

Re: Steve Farris ODS #075

Post by Max »

The discussion about the "pre-classic" tone stack is continued here:

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12113

Cheers,

max
Max
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 6:08 pm

Re: ODS

Post by Max »

dogears wrote:Andy, it was 100s not 170s if I recall......

Also, I think it was a .05 midcap and 100K slope... You sure it was Skyline? It had a .01uf coupler on CL2 I think, as well....
FUCHSAUDIO wrote:Dogears may remember more than I do.

- series number? (170's ?)
- silverface or blackface? (blackface)
- full size presence control or small presence control or accent switch? (full size pot)
- combo or head? (head)
- What kind of wood was used for the cabinet? (pine perhaps)
- tolex or suede? (tolex)
- colour? Black
- grill cloth? Black
- ratio control? No
- if a combo: what kind of speaker? (NO)
- 4 ohms or 8 ohms OT or switchable? (rotary switch)
- Rock/Jazz with a PB middle position? (2-positions)
- PB footswitch? (two way OD gain)
- 100/40W or 50 Watt? (100-W)
- export PT or 117/120V? (don't recall it being export style)
- any updates? (skyline EQ, fat-city, etc.) skyline
- on what records (some examples would be fine) ? (don't know)
- pictures? Maybe, have to check some old CD's I may have )

Wish I could recall more, but it was close to ten years ago !
I may have notes, but cannot promise...I do recall 220-150-K plate values...
Hi Andy, Hi Scott,

could you dig out something corresponding from your memories in regard to this amp of Andy Brauer in the meantime?

Have a nice weekend,

Max
two tone
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:54 pm

Re: Steve Farris ODS #075

Post by two tone »

I bought Karl Ratzers ´Moon Dancer´ CD recently,
great stuff, BIG tone and a joy to play along with (thanx Max)
In the booklet he credits Jochen Koppelberg for ´Dumble Tuning´
anybody knows this guy?
Max
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 6:08 pm

Re: Steve Farris ODS #075

Post by Max »

two tone wrote:I bought Karl Ratzers ´Moon Dancer´ CD recently,
great stuff, BIG tone and a joy to play along with (thanx Max)
In the booklet he credits Jochen Koppelberg for ´Dumble Tuning´
anybody knows this guy?
Hi two tone,

yes, AFAIK he was a friend of both, Karl Ratzer and the former owner of Karl Ratzer's Dumble, and as such had perhaps some part in the acquisition and did things like recommending tubes to use for retubing his Dumble after he had bought it and how to use his effects with it etc. I think "Dumble Tuning" does perhaps "overstress" these facts a bit. And AFAIR he introduced Karl Ratzer to his actual "Dumble tech", if this is what you would like to know. He was a guy called Michael Tauber, a German tech, who did service some of the Dumble amps in Europe including Karl Ratzer's (and Robben Ford's) AFAIR. He does still service Dumble amps AFAIK. This is his website: http://www.atelier-der-tonkunst.de/

Hope this helps.. (as Tony always says)

Cheers,

Max
Max
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 6:08 pm

Re: Steve Farris ODS #075

Post by Max »

FUCHSAUDIO wrote:Yeah, but is it 50-K better than ? :

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/dumble/ ... tLast1.mp3

I think we're shaving gnat's balls at this point..

:shock:
Andy,

thanks to Gerg's (boldaslove6789) post here (thanks for this!)

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 464#130464

perhaps this question is answered now:

"Does a Dumble sound so much better than any other
amplifier to justify its $30,000 price tag? Of course not. The
high cost of a Dumble today is based on its collectible value
and rarity. Strictly speaking, John Mayer’s Overdrive Special
does sound incredibly good, as do those played by the artists
we’ve seen play them live, but these days you can get very
close to the tone, power and dynamic vibe of a Dumble for a
lot less money. For those of you who are strongly motivated
to own a Dumble, understand that they are worth precisely
whatever just one motivated buyer is willing to pay, and a
Dumble with special provenance will demand even more.
And as more Dumbles are taken out of circulation and placed
into private collections, their value will continue to appreciate."
(Tonequest Report, March 2006)

What do you think?

All the best,

Max
Max
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 6:08 pm

Re: Steve Farris ODS #075

Post by Max »

markusw wrote:
Max wrote: It's a pity, would like to come myself. But must still go with crutches for at least a month (too stupid to walk straightforward and now have a torn ligament), so travels are no fun right now.
Hey Max,

sorry to hear that. :(
Hope you can get rid of the crutches soon.
Karl plays on 27th and 28th of August.
Maybe you're lucky...

All the best,

Markus
Hi Markus,

sadly there occured some complications and I still have problems to walk around without pain (as you can see from the number of my posts here lately). So no travels, neither to Vienna nor to Cassis. But please report.

BTW:

When you are in Vienna you could perhaps buy (if you are interested) a record that may still be available in Austria:

Michael Köhlmeier / Karl Ratzer "Das Märchen und der Blues". http://www.sra.at/record/7148

On this record Karl Ratzer plays this ODR with its matching Dumble 4x10" (Altec) cabinet:

http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... 70-O-1.jpg

http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... odrev1.jpg

http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... odrev1.jpg

If you should like this record and should perhaps buy it, it would be great if you could post one or two clips of Karl's playing in the "Video / Clips reference thread" here.

Most of the ODR sounds on record are slide guitar (Rick Vito, Lowell George), and Santana's are probably updated to skyline specs. But this 2nd generation ODR was still all original when Karl Ratzer played it on this record.

Have fun and all the best,

Max
markusw
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:10 pm
Location: Vienna/Austria

Re: Steve Farris ODS #075

Post by markusw »

Hi Max,

I'm really sorry to hear that you're still not completely recovered. Hope you can go to Cassis while it's still warm there.

Will try to find the record here in Vienna.
BTW, I recently listened to "Moon Dancer" at a friends a while a go. Karl's sound with his Tele is really fantastic. Definitely a "reference" sound!! Love it!


Take care,

Markus
Max
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 6:08 pm

Re: Steve Farris ODS #075

Post by Max »

markusw wrote:Hi Max,

I'm really sorry to hear that you're still not completely recovered. Hope you can go to Cassis while it's still warm there.
As the weather is great in Cassis until October, I think so.
Will try to find the record here in Vienna.
BTW, I recently listened to "Moon Dancer" at a friends a while a go. Karl's sound with his Tele is really fantastic. Definitely a "reference" sound!! Love it!

Take care,

Markus
A friend will perhaps send me some mp3 conversions of "Moondancer". As soon as I get these, I'll post them in the "reference thread".

Thanks for your friendly wishes for a speedy recovery and all the best,

Max
Max
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 6:08 pm

Re: Steve Farris ODS #075

Post by Max »

Rob Livesey
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 10:53 am
Location: Manchester, UK
Contact:

Re: Steve Farris ODS #075

Post by Rob Livesey »

Max wrote:
Hi Markus,

sadly there occured some complications and I still have problems to walk around without pain (as you can see from the number of my posts here lately). So no travels, neither to Vienna nor to Cassis. But please report.

BTW:

When you are in Vienna you could perhaps buy (if you are interested) a record that may still be available in Austria:

Michael Köhlmeier / Karl Ratzer "Das Märchen und der Blues". http://www.sra.at/record/7148

On this record Karl Ratzer plays this ODR with its matching Dumble 4x10" (Altec) cabinet:

http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... 70-O-1.jpg

http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... odrev1.jpg

http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... odrev1.jpg

If you should like this record and should perhaps buy it, it would be great if you could post one or two clips of Karl's playing in the "Video / Clips reference thread" here.

Most of the ODR sounds on record are slide guitar (Rick Vito, Lowell George), and Santana's are probably updated to skyline specs. But this 2nd generation ODR was still all original when Karl Ratzer played it on this record.

Have fun and all the best,

Max
Interesting thread. I know this amp, of the many on my site I have personal experience of this amp and have heard it played live with a band, up close and personal. It belonged to my friend Paul Wright who is current owner of #155. I really loved the sound of this amp, especially when Paul played it. I'd say the amp was not completely original when it was used by Karl Ratzer, Paul still has the original tubes :D and also the original speaker cable, which he forgot to pack when he sold it!

Rob.
------------------
Rob Livesey
Manchester, UK
------------------
Max
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 6:08 pm

Re: Steve Farris ODS #075

Post by Max »

Rob Livesey wrote:who is current owner of #155.
Hi Rob,

a good opportunity to say "Thanks Rob!" for your great archive.

#155 is the one on top of the attached pile and the one on the other picture, too. Great amp, always liked the black EQ switches with this black amp.

The Dumbleland Special at the bottom of the pile on the right is #008; first style "small" DL chassis (more depth, less width than later DL / SSS / ODS150W chassis) with seperate face- and backplates - like 1st generation ODS or Winterland #003.

Picture source: http://web.archive.org/web/200802091812 ... ble-e.html

All the best,

Max
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
martin manning
Posts: 14058
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:43 am
Location: 39°06' N 84°30' W

Re: Steve Farris ODS #075

Post by martin manning »

Max wrote:Can you or someone else explain why all this is the case with very similar operating points and plate voltages? I really would like to understand the technical reasons (if this is possible without a degree in physics).
Max, very good discussion here; thanks for your inputs! Re basic operation of triode gain stages, I have never seen a more succinct explanation than the one given here (under the link "Triode Gain Stage" at the left): http://www.freewebs.com/valvewizard/
This is forum member Merlinb's site, and I think you will find the material much more accessible than trying to wade through the RDH4. The other material on the site is excellent too, and it's there for you if you want to go further.
Max
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 6:08 pm

Re: Steve Farris ODS #075

Post by Max »

martin manning,

thanks a lot for the link!

Here's one more Steve Farris solo (starts at 2:15):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et04jMFu4Rg

Thanks again,

Max
Max
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 6:08 pm

Re: Steve Farris ODS #075

Post by Max »

talbany wrote:1st #075 had the center off R/J switch as the boost (lifting the stack) and didn't believe this to be relay driven break bass pot wiper.
Hi Tony, always forgot to ask:

All of the 4th generation amps I know of have a R/J switch with a PB middle position and a PB footswitch. And AFAIR Gil once posted that #124 has such a three position R/J switch with a PB middle position, too.

So could you or someone else here perhaps explain, perhaps by using the #124 schematic or layout or the #123 schematic in the "Gregors's Dumble on the bay" thread ( http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=56782#56782 ), about what technical difference between engaging the PB by using the R/J middle position and the footswitch of these 4th generation amps you are talking about? As you know I am not that experienced in interpreting schematics and perhaps this may be the reason why I don't find the difference you are talking about represented in the #124 and #123 schematics?

All the best,

Max
Post Reply