Structo wrote:Yep, I believe that note bloom is the correct name for that.
Where the note blooms into fundamental harmonic.
Remember that Shad said the Ford clone did this in spades.
From my notes:
Shad wrote:Also the only "problem" I can see is that the damn thing wants to take every single note, ball it up and make it eat its own harmonic ass on the way to the moon.
They just take off.... learning to get a note to ring out without it taking off is way trickier then the other way around!
That takes some getting used to...
Structo wrote:Yep, I believe that note bloom is the correct name for that.
Where the note blooms into fundamental harmonic.
Remember that Shad said the Ford clone did this in spades.
From my notes:
Shad wrote:Also the only "problem" I can see is that the damn thing wants to take every single note, ball it up and make it eat its own harmonic ass on the way to the moon.
They just take off.... learning to get a note to ring out without it taking off is way trickier then the other way around!
That takes some getting used to...
Scott, I love that Oaji. very nice phrasing AND bloom!
Structo wrote:Yep, I believe that note bloom is the correct name for that.
Where the note blooms into fundamental harmonic.
Remember that Shad said the Ford clone did this in spades.
From my notes:
Shad wrote:Also the only "problem" I can see is that the damn thing wants to take every single note, ball it up and make it eat its own harmonic ass on the way to the moon.
They just take off.... learning to get a note to ring out without it taking off is way trickier then the other way around!
That takes some getting used to...
Hey Scott,
Please dont tell me to put a lid on it or ban me. It can only help everyone by hearing examples. I am working on my recording equipment so I can get much better audio quality as well. I have to be honest. I hear very little of it in those clips, although I do hear feedback and great audio quality. (And playing) I heard very little in your GWs as well when you were here, and we went back and forth so I could show you exactly what I was hearing. You did not seem to really care about it, so maybe its just something you do not dig like I do. Maybe its a big part of why I always dug twoRocks and you didnt. Its just a quality that i HAVE to have, and one you do not seem to care much about?? Its all personal taste, and your tones are great for you, just not for me.
Last edited by Mr Dumble on Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I hear a qualitative difference in Mr. D's clip versus Scott's. Mr. D's is very subtle, almost sounding like a bit of a phase shift. That's the kind of thing that I've heard my acoustic guitar do, too. I can also get that sometimes (apparently) just by the way I've picked the string or by the way I'm applying the vibrato to a sustained note. Maybe if he'd held that note longer it would have done what I hear in Scott's clips.
Scott's is more what I hear as bloom or feedback, where the note just takes off at that upper octave. I have a hard time getting that from my amp at lower volume levels, and I wish I knew the secret sauce I need to apply to get more of it. I've heard of the PI trimmer being used to help dial this in, but to be honest I have tried and find the effect of adjusting that trimmer to be too subtle for my ear to hear much of a difference.
Tag, I don't ban.... I just 1000% disagree with you. If I ran no bright cap and got rid of all the articulation and harmonic clarity in my clips (did you listen for the bloom?), you'd be left with what you dig. We liek the same thing. I just prefer mine clearer. Doesn't change the fact that the clips I posted are loaded with all kinds of flipping blooming straininess. Just with clarity too.
Mr Dumble wrote:
dogears wrote:Yes. Correct. My Bludo Ojai does more of this than any amp I have played. Including 183 or Tag's Quinn.
I wish Mr. Dumble would put a lid on the BS regarding only TR and Shad getting what is easily gotten. This total nonsense.
Structo wrote:Yep, I believe that note bloom is the correct name for that.
Where the note blooms into fundamental harmonic.
Remember that Shad said the Ford clone did this in spades.
From my notes:
Hey Scott,
Please dont tell me to put a lid on it or ban me. It can only help everyone by hearing examples. I am working on my recording equipment so I can get much better audio quality as well. I have to be honest. I hear very little of it in those clips, although I do hear feedback and great audio quality. (And playing) I heard very little in your GWs as well when you were here, and we went back and forth so I could show you exactly what I was hearing. You did not seem to really care about it, so maybe its just something you do not dig like I do. Maybe its a big part of why I always dug twoRocks and you didnt. Its just a quality that i HAVE to have, and one you do not seem to care much about?? Its all personal taste, and your tones are great for you, just not for me.
greiswig wrote:I hear a qualitative difference in Mr. D's clip versus Scott's. Mr. D's is very subtle, almost sounding like a bit of a phase shift. That's the kind of thing that I've heard my acoustic guitar do, too. I can also get that sometimes (apparently) just by the way I've picked the string or by the way I'm applying the vibrato to a sustained note. Maybe if he'd held that note longer it would have done what I hear in Scott's clips.
Scott's is more what I hear as bloom or feedback, where the note just takes off at that upper octave. I have a hard time getting that from my amp at lower volume levels, and I wish I knew the secret sauce I need to apply to get more of it. I've heard of the PI trimmer being used to help dial this in, but to be honest I have tried and find the effect of adjusting that trimmer to be too subtle for my ear to hear much of a difference.
Don't give up on the PI adjustment thing... it can make a very noticeable difference. You can make an amp go from no feedback, to ugly feedback (odd order harmonics, i.e., not octaves), to pretty feedback. Try different PI tubes as well.
Structo wrote:Yep, I believe that note bloom is the correct name for that.
Where the note blooms into fundamental harmonic.
Remember that Shad said the Ford clone did this in spades.
From my notes:
Shad wrote:Also the only "problem" I can see is that the damn thing wants to take every single note, ball it up and make it eat its own harmonic ass on the way to the moon.
They just take off.... learning to get a note to ring out without it taking off is way trickier then the other way around!
That takes some getting used to...
Sounds like there is a blanket over those speakers compared to the Quinn. Listen to this one. Different speakers monitors make ALL the difference! I dragged up my Yamahas to record this one with. http://www.soundclick.com/player/single ... 52680&q=hi
CLEAR!! Scott. I hear feed back in your clips YES. But I dont even want that. Thats just gain. I aem taking about the phasey thing at the end of the note. I just do not hear it your clips. The one above has much better quality, and I find yours sounds muffled now. Fuzzy behind a blanket tone. More like what I heard in person. The Quinn had the clarity, note bloom and strain. But now we are just arguing again. We both like and are happ with what we have. VERY GOOD!!!
greiswig wrote:I hear a qualitative difference in Mr. D's clip versus Scott's. Mr. D's is very subtle, almost sounding like a bit of a phase shift. That's the kind of thing that I've heard my acoustic guitar do, too. I can also get that sometimes (apparently) just by the way I've picked the string or by the way I'm applying the vibrato to a sustained note. Maybe if he'd held that note longer it would have done what I hear in Scott's clips.
Scott's is more what I hear as bloom or feedback, where the note just takes off at that upper octave. I have a hard time getting that from my amp at lower volume levels, and I wish I knew the secret sauce I need to apply to get more of it. I've heard of the PI trimmer being used to help dial this in, but to be honest I have tried and find the effect of adjusting that trimmer to be too subtle for my ear to hear much of a difference.
Don't give up on the PI adjustment thing... it can make a very noticeable difference. You can make an amp go from no feedback, to ugly feedback (odd order harmonics, i.e., not octaves), to pretty feedback. Try different PI tubes as well.
Gil
I agree I think much of the Strain/Bloom thing comes from the PI as well.. The 12 AX w/24k tail strains then blooms where the AT in the earlier 2nd generation style is more linear and produces a more velvety texture that grabs on a note and lets it hang..
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
greiswig wrote:I hear a qualitative difference in Mr. D's clip versus Scott's. Mr. D's is very subtle, almost sounding like a bit of a phase shift. That's the kind of thing that I've heard my acoustic guitar do, too. I can also get that sometimes (apparently) just by the way I've picked the string or by the way I'm applying the vibrato to a sustained note. Maybe if he'd held that note longer it would have done what I hear in Scott's clips.
Scott's is more what I hear as bloom or feedback, where the note just takes off at that upper octave. I have a hard time getting that from my amp at lower volume levels, and I wish I knew the secret sauce I need to apply to get more of it. I've heard of the PI trimmer being used to help dial this in, but to be honest I have tried and find the effect of adjusting that trimmer to be too subtle for my ear to hear much of a difference.
Don't give up on the PI adjustment thing... it can make a very noticeable difference. You can make an amp go from no feedback, to ugly feedback (odd order harmonics, i.e., not octaves), to pretty feedback. Try different PI tubes as well.
Gil
I agree I think much of the Strain/Bloom thing comes from the PI as well.. The 12 AX w/24k tail strains then blooms where the AT in the earlier 2nd generation style is more linear and produces a more velvety texture that grabs on a note and lets it hang..
Tony
I agree w/ Gil and Tony, but also concur that the feedback network (PI, Rfeedback, and presence ckt) plays a part in this as well.
Ok, so if PI adjustment is the ticket to getting max blooming/phasing out of a given amp, we need to revisit PI adjustment.
What is your current/simplest way of adjusting the PI trimmer?.....I would imagine that putting a sinus 1000hz signal at the input (and a dummy load on the output) and then adjusting for 0 AC difference between the V3 plates at pin1 and pin6, would be a simple approcah, given that max bloom/phasing is happening when the two Pi halves are in total balance???
Structo wrote:Not all of us have a signal generator, scope or dummy load.
- I'm not sure you need a scope,
- signal generators are freeware, all over the internet (for instance http://www.ringbell.co.uk/software/audio.htm) and
- my dummyload is a simple 15w ceramic 8 ohm resistor. (When it gets warm/hot I just turn down the amp, but so far its been plentifull when burning in amps etc.)
You did not seem to really care about it, so maybe its just something you do not dig like I do. Maybe its a big part of why I always dug twoRocks and you didnt. Its just a quality that i HAVE to have, and one you do not seem to care much about?? Its all personal taste, and your tones are great for you, just not for me. 
Listen to this one. Different speakers monitors make ALL the difference! I dragged up my Yamahas to record this one with.