Tele pick-up overwound

[Mark]

Put a set of Ron's Broadcaster's in a parts tele I have...Tone knob open, Tele spank, roll it back some more, P-90, a little more PAF...Amazing pickups, I have a set of his mid-60's I'm putting in a Strat of mine...

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-d ... rld-2.html

HeistHL, these sort of comments worry me as they smack of pure BS.

I've heard a lot of Tele's and I've heard a lot of P90 equipped guitars and I'm inclined to say no way.

As for humbuckers, well I've never heard a single coil sound like a humbucker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9BJP5tD88k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaRHWw03 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9oCIXHETy4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob4cHUT ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA0LtElaUIo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8kfI8H- ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfCLYlzYO68

I think these clips best illustrate my point, with regard to the quoted comment. This guy is a little too enthusiastic to be credible.

What I do know is that a friend who owned a custom shop Strat though he later purchased a Danocaster with Ron Ellis pickups and he thought it had more of a vintage vibe than the Fender instrument. I did play a custom shop No-Caster that was very bland and I'm inclined to think the RE pickups would turn this guitar around.

I think the thing to remember are the variables, and the ability of the winder to replicate a certain wind all the time. Given the wire is going on to the bobbin very quickly I dare say the winder isn't able to make the exact same pickup every time.

Personally, I think it is the inaccuracies of handwinding that makes a great sounding single coil pickup.

Of course I could be wrong, but this is my take on the whole pickup thing.

I hope you find the You Tube clips interesting.

[heisthl]

Ron no longer works at Fender and winds by hand.

[Mark]

I'm sure his pickups are good, but I think there are probably a lot of good pickups out there.

[skeezbo]

My only nice guitar is a '53 Tele. Its lead pickup stopped working a few years ago. I sent it to Skip Goez in St. Louis, and he rewound it. Sounds as good as it did before, but it is less microphonic. I tried a few replacement pickups in the interim. This is what I learned about Tele pickups from my experience:

Hand wound pickups seem to have more complexity. There are a number available and most that I heard sounded good, but very similar; I liked the Lindy Fralin as well as any of the others I tried.

The magnets in the '53 lead pickup are alnico 3 (less cobalt), which seems essential if you are going for that slightly sweeter early Tele tone. I would go for an alnico 3 pickup hand wound between 6.8 and 7.2k if I was trying to match the '53 lead pickup.

But I like Alnico 5 for the neck pickup.

Skeez

[talbany]

Sorry guy's I am confused!..What exactly does hand wind mean?..What do they crank the machine by hand because I don't see how anyone can get a consistantly good sounding Pup feeding it on the bobbin with your fingers..If someone tells me they could I would look something like this..
BTW..you can also program a good winding machine to scatterwind..
Ive seen Lindy wind many Pups and all are done on his winder he's had like forever!!

Tony

[Zippy]

Shhhhhhhhhhhh, you're letting out the mojo...

[David Root]

Should strictly be "hand guided" not "hand wound". Nobody hand cranks the bobbin plate, but most hand guide the wire back and forth across the bobbin width (scatterwinding). You can use a wire tensioner to maintain even tension on the wire or you can vary the tension with your fingers. I've done both.

Skeezbo's comments on alnico 3 for the Tele bridge in my experience also applies to Strats.

I've wound very few Tele neck pickups but Jim Weider's design that Lindy Fralin perfected and winds has longer magnets and I would guess uses 42 ga wire, not the traditional 43 ga. The low E magnet on this pickup is slightly shorter than the others, which also makes sense, but still longer than standard.

[renshen1957]

Thanks guys!

Tom, to my knowledge no it does not have a blender circuit but I only changed the Vol pot cause it was scratchy and that was it. It's input jack to Volume with the Tone off the volume (.047uF cap to ground) and before that the 3 position switch going to each individual pickup.

I'll have to check the wiring the next time I get the guitar apart.

Yeah, the owner doesn't really care what I do to the guitar, which is quite a relief because a guitar like this needs upgrades here or there to become a nice comfortable players guitar. I plan on taking the guitar on the road and the owner is content with that and knows the risks.


The pickup measures 5.5k BTW which seems too low of output but, I guess all bridge pups from this era varied quite a bit from 5k up to 6.3k but sonically were consistent with each others.

A bit more over-wind on the pups from this era would not hurt tonally and I bet Robben got the pup from his 62' rewound, over-wound by 2%, re-potted, and a brass plate added to the bottom.

I suppose vacuum potting the pup would be the best thing for it (it is a players guitar after all, not a museum piece) and I'd rather use the original pup if I can.

The late 50's early 60's Teles were marketed to Country Clean players by Fender. When compared to the early 50's, the numbers wereabout 1/2 of what the earliest Broadcaster PUPS. Fender's market was basically Clean (until Dick Dale stirred things up) and Fender never did catch on even after CBS that Guitars and Amps were played loud and distorted.

Original Tele pickups weren't wax potted and were microphonic. Some PUP builders will build that way on request!.

Early Broadcaster pickups (also were lap steel pups), 10K-13K. Might be what you are looking for.

The value for the pickup would go down if potted.


Harmonic Design:

High Pressure Wax Potting

This is the same process we use on all our pickups (at no extra charge, of course).

We'll do yours, too. It’s icky work but we’ve got the machine going already, so what the hell. If your pickups are squealing like a pig, send 'em in and we'll dunk 'em for you. It’s the only sure cure.

High-pressure wax potting is $10 per pickup

As to HD,

"The best pickup I've ever heard" • Robben Ford

http://www.harmonicdesign.net/allpages/teles.html

Vintage Plus has enough guts for most players and still sounds like a Tele, The Super 90 can be balanced against a real p-90

Rio Grande's Muy Grande is also a powerful pickup that still sounds like a tele tonally. Enough to kick a Humbacker's backside.

RG also has a P-90 in a Tele bridge pickup meant to sound like a P90, called a dirty harry. Haven't heard the DH to confirm.



Best Regards,

Steve

[talbany]

Should strictly be "hand guided" not "hand wound". Nobody hand cranks the bobbin plate, but most hand guide the wire back and forth across the bobbin width (scatterwinding). You can use a wire tensioner to maintain even tension on the wire or you can vary the tension with your fingers. I've done both.

Skeezbo's comments on alnico 3 for the Tele bridge in my experience also applies to Strats.

I've wound very few Tele neck pickups but Jim Weider's design that Lindy Fralin perfected and winds has longer magnets and I would guess uses 42 ga wire, not the traditional 43 ga. The low E magnet on this pickup is slightly shorter than the others, which also makes sense, but still longer than standard.

Dave
Thanks for the clarification..None of the Pup builders I've talked to ever used the term hand wound/wind whatever.. Other cool Pup spinners are
JM Rolph..Ken Fishers fave for vintage..He even asks for the exact date of the Pup you want and stamps it Fender style..Whatever that means..Nice relic job as well..
Tom Short out of LA..Also spins a nice vintage set..
FWIW..I know Lindy prefers 4% over wound on his Tele bridge and yes he uses 42 Ga for neck..I know he just sent a set to Jeff Beck..Split blades I think..

All The Best!!

T

[David Root]

Tony, thanx for confirming that about Lindy's 42 ga. Tele neck pickups. Would that mean he also uses 42 ga. for the Jim Weider Tele neck pickup? My guess is probably, and Alnico 5 magnets too.

I'm thinking of trying to do one for my own Tele, an otherwise wimpy Hecho en Mexico piece that has a remarkable quarter sawn maple neck that doesn't bend when I put a 013-054 set on it and jacked up the action for slide.

I think I need a Warmoth butterscotch blonde ash body for it too with Callaham hardware and all that other good cork sniffing stuff!

[M Fowler]

Do all of you guys actually try out all the pups your discussing.

Do you actually install that many pups on your guitars that your experts in pups

There are so many sources for pups I don't know how you would even know what to tell the pup winder you want

Mark

[diagrammatiks]

ya this happened at one point.

[IMG680]http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt33 ... SC0591.jpg[/img]

that's not even half the humbuckers I've tried.

single coils, p90s, seven string pickups also happened.

[Structo]

Yeah, it's kind of like speakers.
You don't really know until you try one to determine if it is for you.

And, like speakers can get very expensive.

The latest humbucker I like a lot is the Dimarzio 36th Anniversary PAF.
I have it in the bridge position of my Schecter C-1 Classic.

I haven't really tried any boutique pickups.

Lot of hype and m0jo about pickups that can be a big money drain.

I spent the last couple days dialing in a Strat I bought a few years ago.
Never really played it much when I got it.
It's part of a limited edition run of 250.
It is a red sparkle rear route Strat with only one volume and one tone.
It's sort of like Candy Apple Red but with bigger flakes.
Nothing real special, I think I paid $400 new.

I had to dress the frets just a touch and lower the nut slots to get it right for me.

The pickups sound surprisingly good.
The neck pup really has that great hollow, woody tone.
The magnets have a different type of stagger to them than I have seen before.
They kind of mirror the neck radius in a way, with the middle D & G poles being the highest.

It's kind of a cool guitar.
60th Anniversary model.

It looks like this.

[img:900:600]http://www.willcuttguitars.com/product% ... 9711-5.jpg[/img]

[CHIP]

I put Don Mare PUPs in my 22 year old Tele a few years ago. I love them.

[M Fowler]

See that's what I respect about the people on this forum their vast knowledge on anything involving guitars and amps.

I have only replaced two pups in my whole 55 years of life. I have always wanted to try out different types but never did.

Mark