Steve Farris ODS #075

[makrisp]

Nothing like a D-Ball!

[Max]

Yeah, but is it 50-K better than ? :

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/dumble/ ... tLast1.mp3

I think we're shaving gnat's balls at this point..

Andrew

I guess to answer that question you would have to play it

The right Dumble is an Icon to all the rest

Comparing a great one to a great clone ?
Well I haven't play or heard a clone that reaches Dumble status
But yes theirs some great clones out their , and just like a great vintage guitar being played side by side a clone , The original always stands above the clone

Don't get me wrong dollar for dollar the clones hold their own
But the original will always have its place in market for the ones that hear the difference and can pull the trigger

Guys,

are you really sure, that statements like "a hammer never reaches the status of a saw" make much sense?

What you are talking about are musical instruments. These are tools to make music. So, as with every tool, their "quality" can only be judged if one knows precisely what this special tool shall be used for.

Is a Steinway "superior" to a Bösendorfer? Is a viola "better" than a violin?

The answers to all such questions depend on: What precisely do you want to do with it? How do you intend to use this special tool?

I think to discuss the "quality" of musical instruments without at first to define precisely "for to do what?" is rather foolish.

Every instrument in a band or an orchestra has a certain musical function. So every guitar and every guitar amp has to fit in a special musical context.

Only if this special musical context is known precisely, you can discuss with some sense, what kind of guitar or amp may fit best. Without defining this at first, such a kind of "what is superior?" discussion will only lead into one of these endless and boring Gear Page pissing contests.

Cheers,

Max

[Mac Daddy]

Yeah, but is it 50-K better than ? :

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/dumble/ ... tLast1.mp3

I think we're shaving gnat's balls at this point..

Andrew

I guess to answer that question you would have to play it

The right Dumble is an Icon to all the rest

Comparing a great one to a great clone ?
Well I haven't play or heard a clone that reaches Dumble status
But yes theirs some great clones out their , and just like a great vintage guitar being played side by side a clone , The original always stands above the clone

Don't get me wrong dollar for dollar the clones hold their own
But the original will always have its place in market for the ones that hear the difference and can pull the trigger

Guys,

are you really sure, that statements like "a hammer never reaches the status of a saw" make much sense?

What you are talking about are musical instruments. These are tools to make music. So, as with every tool, their "quality" can only be judged if one knows precisely what this special tool shall be used for.

Is a Steinway "superior" to a Bösendorfer? Is a viola "better" than a violin?

The answers to all such questions depend on: What precisely do you want to do with it? How do you intend to use this special tool?

I think to discuss the "quality" of musical instruments without at first to define precisely "for to do what?" is rather foolish.

Every instrument in a band or an orchestra has a certain musical function. So every guitar and every guitar amp has to fit in a special musical context.

Only if this special musical context is known precisely, you can discuss with some sense, what kind of guitar or amp may fit best. Without defining this at first, such a kind of "what is superior?" discussion will only lead into one of these endless and boring Gear Page pissing contests.

Cheers,

Max

Max
With all do respect , My statement was not intended to start a pissing contest
But if you look a little deeper and see that one of our most well regarded friend & moderator is stating that his finding are in line with what I'm also saying that their must be some truth in my statement

BTW I consider Andy a friend & brother in arms
isn't this a place to to talk about Amps ? No battle intended

[Max]

isn't this a place to to talk about Amps ?

Yes, and because of this we perhaps should do this and not only talk about our different personal taste. The fact, that different people like different things, is trivial.

If I know, that you like a certain painting of van Gogh, your personal taste is the topic and not this painting. Big difference.

And if I know, that someone likes a certain kind of amp or guitar, this is only an information about the personal taste of this someone and not an information about the specific character, advantages and disadvantages etc. of this amp or guitar.

And I really think, that it does not lead anywhere to discuss matters of personal taste.

What we can discuss here with some sense are topics like how to get more high end chime for the OD sound of a certain amp. But to discuss, if an amp with more "sing" is "better" than one with less, is nonsens IMHO.

What would be intersting, is to find out, what technical specifications lead to the specific tone of #0183. But to discuss if #0183 is "better" than some other Dumble amp or clone? Who shall decide this? Shall we vote?

Do you understand my point?

Cheers,

Max

[Mac Daddy]

isn't this a place to to talk about Amps ?

Yes, and because of this we perhaps should do this and not only talk about our different personal taste. The fact, that different people like different things, is trivial.

If I know, that you like a certain painting of van Gogh, your personal taste is the topic and not this painting. Big difference.

And if I know, that someone likes a certain kind of amp or guitar, this is only an information about the personal taste of this someone and not an information about the specific character, advantages and disadvantages etc. of this amp or guitar.

And I really think, that it does not lead anywhere to discuss matters of personal taste.

What we can discuss here with some sense are topics like how to get more high end chime for the OD sound of a certain amp. But to discuss, if an amp with more "sing" is "better" than one with less, is nonsens IMHO.

What would be intersting, is to find out, what technical specifications lead to the specific tone of #0183. But to discuss if #0183 is "better" than some other Dumble amp or clone? Who shall decide this? Shall we vote?

Do you understand my point?

Cheers,

Max

If you go back a few posts you can see is that I agreed with the person's comments regarding 183 , Being that I have played it and was their each time the poster played it

All I did was answer a question that was directed towards me after my 1st comment , also showing a photo and clip of the Amp in question

I don't think I need you to teach me the ethics of the forum or for you to speak for other members

[FUCHSAUDIO]

This was nothing more than a friend "poking another friend in the ribs", not meant to make trouble.

I do think many builders have closed the gap on the real amps vs their own clones or "inspired-by" designs.

I think, like a fine wine, a nice fat old jazz box guitar, an old '58 Les Paul, or an aged steak, we'll never be able to make a true comparison that takes into account the break-in of and amps over time. They will never be the same age....

Lets relax, and all take a deep cleansing breath.....

[Mac Daddy]

This was nothing more than a friend "poking another friend in the ribs", not meant to make trouble.

I do think many builders have closed the gap on the real amps vs their own clones or "inspired-by" designs.

I think, like a fine wine, a nice fat old jazz box guitar, an old '58 Les Paul, or an aged steak, we'll never be able to make a true comparison that takes into account the break-in of and amps over time. They will never be the same age....

Lets relax, and all take a deep cleansing breath.....

Andy I agree and knew what you were doing
I just don't understand why M is targeting me

[talbany]

Who really knows what drives the collectible prices on such things so high.. Famous people who use them, Iconic tone they produced on their favorite songs, the cloners and even the very presence of this board helps reinforce the high price.. Irony in action don't you think...

Tony

[Mac Daddy]

[quote="talbany"]Who really knows what drives the collectible prices on such things so high.. Famous people who use them, Iconic tone they produced on their favorite songs, the cloners and even the very presence of this board helps reinforce the high price.. Irony in action don't you think...

Like anything else ..Supply & Demand

[jelle]

Max,

I think we all gave our opinion about the sonical qualities of certain D- amps in this tread. You wrote that for you, the Farris amp is very tasty sounding. Then a classic high late amp was discussed and Scott chimed in and stated that he liked other circuits better. A little later he explained why he liked those other circuits better: he likes to play on the bridge pick up of a humbucker guitar. Then Mad Daddy chimes in and teases a bit. All in good fun, I'm sure.

I agree that this should not turn into a gear page tread.
What if we would discuss the amp, style of circuit and why one likes it with certain guitars? Max, I noticed that you posted some great clips with stratocasters and marshall 4x12's. Those sounded great! Were these done with an amp with a classic tonestack? I personally like that stack with stratocasters.

BTW, the OT mismatch that you mentioned can work for some people as it 'cleans' up the sound a bit. On the other hand, I have killed some OT's this way in 50W amps as some of the current production OT's cannot handle the voltage spikes that occur at these settings.

All the best,

jelle

[Structo]

Must be cool to own such a fantastic amp Mac Daddy.

I kind of stopped following the Tag saga over at TGP.
Those threads never ended well.

[Max]

Max,

I think we all gave our opinion about the sonical qualities of certain D- amps in this tread. You wrote that for you, the Farris amp is very tasty sounding. Then a classic high late amp was discussed and Scott chimed in and stated that he liked other circuits better. A little later he explained why he liked those other circuits better: he likes to play on the bridge pick up of a humbucker guitar. Then Mad Daddy chimes in and teases a bit. All in good fun, I'm sure.

I agree that this should not turn into a gear page tread.
What if we would discuss the amp, style of circuit and why one likes it with certain guitars? Max, I noticed that you posted some great clips with stratocasters and marshall 4x12's. Those sounded great! Were these done with an amp with a classic tonestack? I personally like that stack with stratocasters.

BTW, the OT mismatch that you mentioned can work for some people as it 'cleans' up the sound a bit. On the other hand, I have killed some OT's this way in 50W amps as some of the current production OT's cannot handle the voltage spikes that occur at these settings.

All the best,

jelle

Hi Jelle,

my point is this:

IMHO it is something very different to discuss:

- if the Step Filters of the Dumblelands always have 11 steps or not.
- if Tandy Wire and Columbia Flexfoam both are RG59 or not
- if the Skyliner and the Classic tonstack both have the same slope resistor value or not

or to discuss:

- If Dumblelands with 11 steps sound "better" than those with 7 steps filters
- If Columbia Flexfoam sounds "better" than Tandy Wire
- If Skyliners sound "better" than Classics.

The first kind of discussions leads to more information about the specific "qualities" of Dumble amps ("quality" in the sense of "this is how they are", "these are the facts" and not in the sense of "good" or "bad"):

- the different numbers of steps in the Step Filters of different DL
- the differences in the technical specifications of Tandy wire and Columbia Flexfoam
- the differences in the tonestack specifications of a Skyliner and a Classic

The second kind of discussion does not lead to more information about Dumble amps but to more information about the personal taste of those members, who have posted what they like and dislike:

A prefers original Skyliners, because....
B prefers Two Rocks because....
C prefers blackface Twins because...
etc.

All this is fine with me.

But if A and B and C now would start to discuss, if Two Rock amps "are" better than original Skyliners or blackface Twins ("are" in the sense of "this is an obvious fact" instead of "personally perceived as beeing more in accord with a specific personal taste") this would be foolish IMHO - because "ther's no accounting for taste".

That is, what I wanted to point out - not more - not less.

Clips:

These have not been recorded with a "classic" ODS but with a second generation ODS.

All the best to you, too,

Max

[Mac Daddy]

Must be cool to own such a fantastic amp Mac Daddy.

I kind of stopped following the Tag saga over at TGP.
Those threads never ended well.

I never said I owned the Amp ,, And if I did it would have to be one special amp ,
Regarding this thread , All I did was agree with Scott on this choice of Dumble and post a Clip & photo , nothing more , I thought that you guys would like to see & hear what he was talking about

Anyone that knows me from TGP knows that I don't fight with anyone
I like to take the high road in life

[Max]

Irony in action don't you think...

Tony

Yes, at least some sort of irony. Of course Dumbles are great amps. But obviously Chris Cross, Rick Vito, Steve Lukather, Steve Farris, David Lindley, Jackson Browne and many others of these players, who've made them famous, decided to value some cash "superior" to the "quality" of this "Icon" (and most of them did so at a time, when the prices still have been between 5,000 and 15,000 for a head or combo).

And as far as I know they did not stop to play guitar after they had sold them.

The reason for the high prices?

- many guitar players like how they sound and feel
- many people like to own things with a "celebrity history"
- some did not have the money in the 70ies but now they have, even 80,000, and now they play Santa Claus, and not for their childs
- many people are attracted by things surrounded with some myth and mystery
- some are just curious what all the fuzz is about
- as only few have been made, the demand is much higher than supply.
- that brought the prices up
- because of this, many of those listed above think, that a Dumble makes a good investment and because of this they have a perfect excuse if Sandy, Mary or Hanako would ask: Are you crazy?

That is MHO.

Cheers,

Max

[talbany]

Irony in action don't you think...

Tony

Yes, at least some sort of irony. Of course Dumbles are great amps. But obviously Chris Cross, Rick Vito, Steve Lukather, Steve Farris, David Lindley, Jackson Browne and many others of these players, who've made them famous, decided to value some cash "superior" to the "quality" of this "Icon" (and most of them did so at a time, when the prices still have been between 5,000 and 15,000 for a head or combo).

And as far as I know they did not stop to play guitar after they had sold them.

The reason for the high prices?

- many guitar players like how they sound and feel
- many people like to own things with a "celebrity history"
- some did not have the money in the 70ies but now they have, even 80,000, and now they play Santa Claus, and not for their childs
- many people are attracted by things surrounded with some myth and mystery
- some are just curious what all the fuzz is about
- as only few have been made, the demand is much higher than supply.
- that brought the prices up
- because of this, many of those listed above think, that a Dumble makes a good investment and because of this they have a perfect excuse if Sandy, Mary or Hanako would ask: Are you crazy?

That is MHO.

Cheers,

Max

Max
Love your posts..

You forgot one REPLICAS!!.. Most products don't reach legendary status w/ ridiculous price tags like the Dumbles..until the replicas clones whatever you want to call it hits the market..add 30%.. This is true with watches, cloths, jewely, rugs, paintings, and even hand bags..This IMHO validates in the public eye and those who never played one the true uniqueness of the original only throwing more fuel or as you put it mystique on the fire..And here we are the Amp Garage Dumble Discussion building replicas talking and criticizing the high price.. Irony..

Tony