2nd Generation 50W ODS Period correct Layout

[bluesfendermanblues]

"so you did not have to qualify for a build.
However, I must add that I had several requests to HAD by letter,
and he answered each one competently and politely, and free of charge.

Same experience here back in 89', as he was real cool in the beginning of the deal. It was the 4th or so phone call that he threatened to charge me.

TM

Why shouldn't he invoice people who wants free advise. He's running a business.

My layer behaves the same way.....I can ask him for a few free pieces of advise, but then he wants to invoice me.

I think its called, being a professional

On this forum, most of us are amateurs so we provide help and input to each other for free. You can't run a business that way. IMO.

[EaNot]

ToneMerc, Excuse me, thanks!

[ToneMerc]

"so you did not have to qualify for a build.
However, I must add that I had several requests to HAD by letter,
and he answered each one competently and politely, and free of charge.

Same experience here back in 89', as he was real cool in the beginning of the deal. It was the 4th or so phone call that he threatened to charge me.

TM

Why shouldn't he invoice people who wants free advise. He's running a business.

My layer behaves the same way.....I can ask him for a few free pieces of advise, but then he wants to invoice me.

I think its called, being a professional

On this forum, most of us are amateurs so we provide help and input to each other for free. You can't run a business that way. IMO.

I would think that $2800 upfront in 1989' amp dollars certainly entitled me to at least 3 phone calls and I bet your lawyer didn't charge $250 for 10 mins back in 1989 either.

[Structo]

Oh, did you get an amp too ToneMerc?

I have to say there sure seems to be a lot of intrigue with these amps and the stories of how guys got their amps is very interesting to me.

Kind of reminds me of the Soup Nazi episode on the old Seinfeld show.

If you misbehaved or didn't qualify, no amp for you!

It would be very cool to have one of these rare gems.

[ToneMerc]

Oh, did you get an amp too ToneMerc?

I have to say there sure seems to be a lot of intrigue with these amps and the stories of how guys got their amps is very interesting to me.

Kind of reminds me of the Soup Nazi episode on the old Seinfeld show.

If you misbehaved or didn't qualify, no amp for you!

It would be very cool to have one of these rare gems.

Unlike today the experience was so different; strictly word of mouth perse, no sound clips, no pictures and really no advertisement. It was really akin to buying an amp underground with strict rules.

Check your PM

[crbowman]

Hey Tony,
Beautiful work! Thank you!
This would have made my life a lot easier about a year ago.
Question, I have a 500k bass pot in mine. What difference would the 1M bass pot make in this circuit?
Thanks again Tony.

[talbany]

Hey Tony,
Beautiful work! Thank you!
This would have made my life a lot easier about a year ago. :D
Question, I have a 500k bass pot in mine. What difference would the 1M bass pot make in this circuit?
Thanks again Tony.

crbowman
Hope you are well.. Best thing is download this

http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/download.html

Select James tone stack and enter the values along with any caps attached to the pot bass pot..Also treble pot value and value of load resistor on the bottom of the bass pot..then run a sweep of the different pot values.. It won't be 100% accurate but will give you a pretty good idea between different pot values..The James is different..

Hope this helps

Tony

[crbowman]

Awesome Tony.
Thank you so much!

[marcos]

10% taper 250KA mid pot:

This is interesting that you know at least two amps (your own 2nd generation and this single 3rd generation) with a 10% taper 250KA mid pot. Could you perhaps post what precisely is all stamped into or written on this mid pot in your own amp, which you did measure to have a 10% taper?

RG59 coax in your own 2nd generation ODS:

If I understood correctly what you’ve posted, your 2nd generation "pre-classic" is not equipped with the usual 2nd generation grey Columbia Flexfoam coax cable (like #040 as an example) but with a RG59 coax cable. This is interesting, too. Is there anything written on the RG59 cable in your amp, be it a brand name or something else? And what is the sheath colour of the RG59 in your 2nd generation amp? And do you know the specs and dimensions (AWG or mm) of its core, its dielectric isolation and its sheath?




Max

Hi Max,
the 250 K mid pot has 250K AUD written on it,the same as the 30% pots,
so you have to measure it.I don´t think it would make big difference in the 2nd generation amps,where the Middle control doesn´t do much,
but it might matter in the 3rd generation amps, due to the missing .02
cap on the the bass pot, which makes the Middle and Bass controls more effective.
Who knows, maybe HAD used both types, similar to 80s amps, AFAIK some have 100 KL, some 100 KA (not sure which taper) for the mid pot.
The coax has no brand name on it, AFAIR the inner conductor
has a diameter of about 1 mm, overall diameter about 6 mm.I´ll
take precise measurements next time I open the amp.I´m not even sure it is RG 59, could be RG 58 as well.
BTW the connection from the FET input to the FET board is the Columbia Flexfoam too in my amp.
I really appreciate Tony´s and your efforts in this thread, I´ll be back soon
Marcos

[marcos]

Question, I have a 500k bass pot in mine. What difference would the 1M bass pot make in this circuit?

Although the question was directed at Tony, here´s my 2 cents:
The 1 Meg pot will give slightly more bass when maxing the Bass control
in Jazz mode, at the same trickier to dial in when in Rock mode.
One possible solution is to use a 1 Meg pot with a 10% taper.
HAD never used this, but it works great.
Of course, you´ll get a little more bass in Rock mode,too,
not really worth changing the pot IMHO.

Hope this helps Marcos

[crbowman]

Question, I have a 500k bass pot in mine. What difference would the 1M bass pot make in this circuit?

Although the question was directed at Tony, here´s my 2 cents:
The 1 Meg pot will give slightly more bass when maxing the Bass control
in Jazz mode, at the same trickier to dial in when in Rock mode.
One possible solution is to use a 1 Meg pot with a 10% taper.
HAD never used this, but it works great.
Of course, you´ll get a little more bass in Rock mode,too,
not really worth changing the pot IMHO.

Hope this helps Marcos

Thanks Marcos.
Always nice to hear from you.
I appreciate your expertise!

[Max]

Hi Max,
the 250 K mid pot has 250K AUD written on it,the same as the 30% pots,
so you have to measure it.I don´t think it would make big difference in the 2nd generation amps,where the Middle control doesn´t do much,
but it might matter in the 3rd generation amps, due to the missing .02
cap on the the bass pot, which makes the Middle and Bass controls more effective.
Who knows, maybe HAD used both types, similar to 80s amps, AFAIK some have 100 KL, some 100 KA (not sure which taper) for the mid pot.
The coax has no brand name on it, AFAIR the inner conductor
has a diameter of about 1 mm, overall diameter about 6 mm.I´ll
take precise measurements next time I open the amp.I´m not even sure it is RG 59, could be RG 58 as well.
BTW the connection from the FET input to the FET board is the Columbia Flexfoam too in my amp.
I really appreciate Tony´s and your efforts in this thread, I´ll be back soon
Marcos

Hi Marcos,

The majority of the 2nd generation "pre-classic" ODS amps, which I know in person or from gut pictures that have still been without a mod or repair at the time I've seen them or the pictures had been taken, had these pots:

Volume: Fender part # 021832; 1M AUD
Treble: Clarostat Mil-Spec RV4NAYSK504A HMS-500K
Middle: Fender part # 021840; 250K AUD
Bass: Fender part # 021832; 1M AUD
Overdrive: Fender part # 021873; 100K - D
Level: Fender part # 021832; 1M AUD

And in the majority of the 2nd generation "pre-classic" ODS amps, which I know in person and from gut pictures that have still been without a mod or repair at the time I've seen them or the pictures had been taken, was the Columbia Flexfoam coax. But of course there are always exceptions like your own 2nd generation ODS, which does not have the Columbia Flexfoam but probably already the 3rd generation RG59 coax.

IMO this is very similar in regard to these different ODS generations like in regard to vintage guitars: The majority of the 50ies sunburst Les Pauls with a series number starting with a 9 will have the "Patent No." Klusons mounted. But some exceptions will still have "Pat. Appld" Klusons mounted - just as one "vintage guitars example". And the 2nd generation ODS which is documented in Tony's (talbany) layout will probably be such an exception, too, with a 021857 250K AUD 2-35 middle pot instead of the more usual 021840 250K AUD middle pot.

Take care,

Max

[ampcrack]

[quote="talbany")
When the 2nd generation was manufactured
- pre production ODS with the 3 step OD switch (1968 - 1972)
- 1st generation (1972 - 1975)
- 2nd generation (1975 - 1978)
- 3rd generation (1978 - 1979)
- transition generation (1979 - 1981)


Great work Tony!

And I also agree with Max and some of you others.

But personally I do not think that we can generally pinpoint HAD's work this specifically.

Like I know of two ODS amps in the 02x's that were ordered in 1979 and delivered in late 1980.

And I know of two ODS amps in the 05x's that were ordered, one in 1979
and the other in 1980. Both delivered in 1981!

So I guess there are a lot of exceptions here, or?

[talbany]

Ampcrack

Thanks for the reply..
Do you by chance know what generation these 02X or 05X amps are and could share it with us?

Tony

[bluesfendermanblues]

I would think that $2800 upfront in 1989' amp dollars certainly entitled me to at least 3 phone calls and I bet your lawyer didn't charge $250 for 10 mins back in 1989 either.

I guess you are right about hourly rates back in 1989