Mike Landau new dumble???

[Max]

Deposit- haha, it was to be paid all up front via cashiers check.

Yes, you are right:

"Order Form"

"[line]10.....Grand Total"

"02. to prepay in full the U.S. Dollar amount listed on line 10 of the Order Form"

AFAIK most of these self-help books on shopping recommend to read a document thoroughly and not only briefly before signing.

Price-the price was directly related to the lead time and of course the most expensive price was the quickest delivery time.
That's not a problem in itself, however I remember being "encouraged" that it would be in my best benefit not to choose the slowest delivery time.

I admit that we all seem to have a tendency to better blame the devilish sellers, who bewitched us poor GAS victims by some Dumbledore charm - before risking to perceive this greedy, hasty, impatient, and witless fool looking into the mirror.

Cheers,

Max

[ToneMerc]

Deposit- haha, it was to be paid all up front via cashiers check.

Yes, you are right:

"Order Form"

"[line]10.....Grand Total"

"02. to prepay in full the U.S. Dollar amount listed on line 10 of the Order Form"

AFAIK most of these self-help books on shopping recommend to read a document thoroughly and not only briefly before signing.

Price-the price was directly related to the lead time and of course the most expensive price was the quickest delivery time.
That's not a problem in itself, however I remember being "encouraged" that it would be in my best benefit not to choose the slowest delivery time.

I admit that we all seem to have a tendency to better blame the devilish sellers, who bewitched us poor GAS victims by some Dumbledore charm - before risking to perceive this greedy, hasty, impatient, and witless fool looking into the mirror.

Cheers,

Max

And the feudal King entertains the poor witless peasants with his Jester and says let them eat cake.

TM

[ampdork]

You guys paint him like some kind of Jerk but let's look at the facts., You all come here daily to rip the guys ideas off....So I guess he was entirely correct to stem the ties as much as he could with these useless contracts.

He was correct in that companies and people would try to steal it.

Also I see a lot of talk about people he has taken money from but only ever seen one or maybe two examples of this being actually true.
Does anyone have verifiable facts they got took....or just a story here or there from commercial competitor that use his ideas?

See I think it is kinda hard to rip off a nice guy but if they guy is a prick (or you can paint him that way) then he "deserves "what he got and the guy ripping off the ideas is some kind of hero....

If anyone other then Andy can name a name I'd love to hear it.
I think a lot of guys just like to repeat rumors.....

Look at #183. Guy orders it and waits a couple of years and calls "You ever call me again you'll never get your amp" (I am way paraphrasing) so the guy writes it off as he's been ripped off entirely....never calls again...chalks it up to a loss.

A few years go by and then out of the blue "your amp is ready".

Not at all saying this is a really keen way to run your game.....what I am saying is as much as the guy looks like some sort of crook at least with this one occasion he really did keep his word and delivered an amp, 6-7 years down the pike but still out of the blue he delivered.

And again too if he really such a prick? After all he pretty tells you in that contract how it might go down. I am betting all the people who got "ripped off" singed the contract and then proceeded to do exactly what they said they would not by signing the dumb thing.

So it is hard to feel badly for anyone who would sign into such a crazy thing but then cry foul AFTER they went against every line of it.

Funny too that even today he does not charge what his amps could sell for the instant they are delivered.

So let's see the actual "list" of who is out of money completely (and what they did against the contract) and see if there is anything to the rumors that he is actually ripping people off. Landau himself waited years....but did he not get his amp? If Dumble was outright ripping people off and his work did not require years then why would he make a guy that talented wait so long..

I think the guy really operates on a level few of us ever could and the people out there that get it are willing to let him do it his way. I wonder if landau has any regrets after waiting for some years?
I am betting he is pleased as can be....time will tell I guess.

Anyway sorry for another mini rant of mine but of well. I see plenty of bashing on the guy but none of you have forums with your names on it so he must have done soemthing along the way that is "right".

All in love of my fellow man...

[/code]

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Shad, since you asked, Scottl knows a guy very well Bob (his last name escapes me, senior moment), but he's in the Philly area. Bob has corresponded with and knows personally, a number of people who have been victimized. He bought, sold and owned many Dumbles, and has times,dates, and names to back some of this up. It's not posted without being based in reality. It's up to Scott and/or Bob (whom I think may belong to this forum) if they want to rehash these old events. Scott has also talked with many D- owners who related their horror stories about getting their amps delivered or repaired.

As far as the morality: Many customers brought amps to me, Billy Yates, Paul Rivera, and other techs, because they had bad experiences with HAD or didn't want to chance never seeing an amp again. The information started to leak out, in-part because it was forced out.

I had two customers Sean Gillan and Carlos Rivera who had bizarre dealings they shared: Sean needed to go the LAPD to get him to deliver the amp he flew to California (from Long Island) to pick up. When he called from LA to get it (after being told it was done), the excuses started....when the police got involved the amp was suddenly delivered on a Moped. "Here's your amp...see ya"... Carlos owned two Dumble amps ( "one to play and one to be repaired.." his words not mine). Sold them both and was later harassed by Howard in person, for buying a few of mine...."Hey how are those amps I made ?". "Sold them bought a few Fuchs'...". Howie freaked.

These sillly contracts notwithstanding, the customer service end of his business has always been bizarre (and that's being kind). None of this stuff would hold up in court anyway. Whats more foolish, the guy who'd actually signed and accepted one of these contracts and gave him cash, or the guy who thinks he could get away with saying his customers knew they'd be dealing with a guy like this from the start ? I suspect a judge would have some stern words for both parties.

Andy Brauer told me he had to stop selling them because "lead times got longer and longer, deposits got bigger and bigger, and the sound constantly changed from unit to unit, and my customers got angrier and angrier". His irrationality is typified by a sweet guy like Dean waiting years to get an amp back, while other name artists got amps repaired, new amps delivered (some wired enough to work, but not complete) , and other customers got alienated or simply gave up on dealing with him.

At this point, what difference does it really make ? You seem obsessed with picking at this scab, and at this point it seems a moot point.

[vibratoking]

You guys paint him like some kind of Jerk but let's look at the facts., You all come here daily to rip the guys ideas off....

I don't come hear to rip off his ideas. You owe alot of people here an apology after making that statement. Studying, learning, and ripping off are very different things. It also shows your ignorance regarding the use of circuits. The vast majority of the circuit topologies used in all electronics have been invented by someone else. IMO, HAD put together some damn fine guitar amps using/tweaking circuits invented by others. This has been discussed ad nauseum. I only mention it due to your rip off remark.

Also I see a lot of talk about people he has taken money from but only ever seen one or maybe two examples of this being actually true.

A guy that does business that way has poor business ethics in my book. The quantity of people that he has taken money from is irrelavent. If he did it to one person, that is too many. I have no first hand knowledge of anyone being ripped off so I am reserving judgment, although I would never do business with anyone presenting me with a contract worded like that.

[ampdork]

Sorry Andy not trying to pick any scabs as you say. Just find it interesting is all since I hear stories from people who have bought amps as recently as this year state he is the sweetest guy you could ever meet.
So I do find it interesting that there are people who have such wildly differing stories to tell about the very same man.

[Chris G]

Wow....This thread has taken a huge shit!!!!!!
sorry I posed the question.
Chris

[ampdork]

The vast majority of the circuit topologies used in all electronics have been invented by someone else.

Vibrato I am not going to give you nor anyone else an apology.
If you really think the guy only picked up what others were doing then please by all means cite the work he is lifting from...

Small example... how many amps out there have ever used anything other then A 100K OR 220k on the plates? Not that many I am betting...

So sorry if it stings a bit but not at all going to apologize for it.
If it rings true then so be it...if ti does not ring true for you....then why on earth would you be offended? Just shake it off... ;O)

The guy is original enough that he knew what he was doing was going to be sought after by all sorts of people for all sorts of reasons.

It is a fact that today there are several companies who are benefiting from the mans work...

So is it a case of manifest destiny or was the guy completely right in thinking he would get the screws and man others would never think twice about using his circuits??/ Seeing how much they are worth now, how many companies have ripped him off directly or indirectly (hey my names in that hat too) I just find it interesting in retrospect.
if he was not onto something he and other felts was real then I do not see how he could have ever gotten off the ground with such stipulations.

As for "me" picking scabs? really? Cause I did not start this thread, nor did I post the contracts that were used many decades ago....

All I did was say things that make other uncomfortable....

As for the rumor mills.....Sorry Andy but I would not trust neither you nor Scott's word at this point. Both of you have agenda's of one kind or another and therefore I could not call upon either with credence.

Seem awfully weird so many people would take the screws without making a bigger fuss, class action lawsuits or the like.
Maybe a lot of them feel stupid for having singed those contracts though....so maybe your right...

All I do know is it a lot harder to sell amps if you got the ideas from a nice guy.....really super easy to be painted a hero if that guy is some kind of dickhead... Maybe he is a dickhead and all you guys have said is utterly true....it could be for sure.....I just find it odd that the only people who ever make those claims either have amp companies or are entirely affiliated with several, or are more often, people who are just repeating internet rumors as truth.

Whatever.... really it is no big deal as Andy points out. Dumble is not hurting, is still building and servicing the amps he chooses to, people still want them and somehow some even manage to get them, for everyone else there are numerous alternatives. The people who did get burned....well they should simply sue him....does no seem beyond reason to me. The fact that I know of no such action ever taking place is odd....
One would think anyone who rooked so many would at least end up wuth his arse in court at least once...

No worries guys...not at all trying to have a fight. Just expressing other viewpoints of the mystery that is Dumble.

My apologies if viewpoints expressed are not the ones some happen to like or agree with....but is this not just the way life is?

[groovtubin]

Wow....This thread has taken a huge shit!!!!!!
sorry I posed the question.
Chris

time to spank yourself silly! lolololo!!

jp

[ampdork]

Sorry if not everyone on earth agrees with everyone else... no real reason to get emotional about it or take it personal.
Agree or disagree there are far more real issues in the world that maybe do matter.
This one clearly is upsetting more people then the issue is really worth...


So moving on. Hope Landau like his new Dumble. Bet it sounds really great.
Any clips anywhere yet?

[vibratoking]

Vibrato I am not going to give you nor anyone else an apology.
If you really think the guy only picked up what others were doing then please by all means cite the work he is lifting from...

Small example... how many amps out there have ever used anything other then A 100K OR 220k on the plates? Not that many I am betting...

Your own battle with ethics and morals determine if and when you will issue an apology... We get the respect that we command through our actions.

Open an RCA Receiving Tube manual and you will find many circuits lifted by HAD.

Yes, it is an infinitely small, non-existent, example of invention. Inventions are typically innovative. Changing plate resistor values is not inventive in any way, shape, or form.

[dogears]

Ya know.... I was going to be a bit nasty in my reply but I self edited.

I have ZERO agenda and you know it. I have done nothing but helped whoever needed help with no strings. Now, I am a liar if I recount info that is credible and told to me first hand.

What possible agenda do I have to lie about this?

As for the rumor mills.....Sorry Andy but I would not trust neither you nor Scott's word at this point. Both of you have agenda's of one kind or another and therefore I could not call upon either with credence.

[talbany]

Not to get into this business discussion but I would consider the Skyline tone stack.. implementation of the R/J switch and the topology of the OD circuit unique and innovative.. I suppose one could argue certain parts he used ie pots/resistors and cap choice has been used in other amps but his ability to find right combination or recipe of certain parts in key spots implemented that yielded such a tone is also very innovative, very time consuming and IMHO a big part of his genius for the time, since not many others went as deep..If any of this matters to others..

Tony

[dogears]

For the record, I have had many people tell me to my face what a great guy HAD is and what a professional. I have also had a number of bad experiences recounted. Maybe he is bipolar.... Who knows.

Funny story.... A guy on TGP started with the HAD is a saint and was a total pro with me. Don't believe what you read, it is all BS he wrote in the TGP thread. I PM'ed the fellow with some info. He gets back to me and says ''I know! The guy I sold my Dumble to had issues with a repair and had to get lawyers involved to get the amp back." We spoke on the phone about it. The guy was thinking as I am that maybe there is some sort of bipolar thing. He was treated great, yet his friend was screwed royally.

Recently I played Mitch Colby's Showman mod. Mitch is buds with HAD and has nothing but great experiences.

I have many more tales, some much worse than fairly benign tale above. And Andy is correct about "Bob" on ampgarage. He has owned 6 Dumbles and is a close friend and lives near me. He has had many a run-in as has his friend who also ordered an amp (like 20 years ago).

[daydreamer]

Hey, sorry if I offended anyone, my comments were strictly tongue in cheek. I actually admire the guy, not because he 'rips anyone off' but that he can spell out exactly what he wants and in no uncertain terms and get it.

If I really thought it was what I needed, I would be signing up as well.

I think Bob Dylan said "a man is a success if he can get up in the morning and do whatever he likes all day" or something like that. a bit amoral yes, but hey, he is building amps for people who can afford them, not forcing them on africa or something...

Dumble is OK. I think...not that I know or anything...

(I bet he is wishing he could get rid of all those Henry Kaiser Youtube clips though... )

I think the challenge for each of us is to make our own mark on the world, and for others to say it's a good thing.


Andy