Quinn goes PCB

[vibratoking]

... if all parts have CE certification, than the wole amp should have...

That's not true. It would make achieving certification easier, but...

[glasman]

For guitar amps, most of the CE certification is based on emitted radiation testing. They measure the radiated fields at a specific distance. Other criteria deal with how low voltage, high voltage and other signal lines are routed/dressed in the construction. Product labelling and documentation is also examined. The local company here was telling me they can do a group certification on products built using the same techniques and materials.

[vibratoking]

Gary - best of luck with the certification. Work on developing a good repore with the certification buys, especially the guys at the open air test site (OATS). I think you'll find it's a black art and that the outcome of the tests is VERY subjective and depends highly on the setup, which is done by the guys at the OATS. Again, my experience shows that the certification will come after the required amount of $$$ is spent. I wouldn't spend too much time/$ in an anechoic chamber because normally things are very different at the OATS. My experience is with products with high frequency clocks running around inside the product. A guitar amp should be easier since you don't have that. Not sure what the problems will be with tubes and transformers, but I would guess there will be one.

[glasman]

Gary - best of luck with the certification. Work on developing a good repore with the certification buys, especially the guys at the open air test site (OATS). I think you'll find it's a black art and that the outcome of the tests is VERY subjective and depends highly on the setup, which is done by the guys at the OATS. Again, my experience shows that the certification will come after the required amount of $$$ is spent. I wouldn't spend too much time/$ in an anechoic chamber because normally things are very different at the OATS. My experience is with products with high frequency clocks running around inside the product. A guitar amp should be easier since you don't have that. Not sure what the problems will be with tubes and transformers, but I would guess there will be one.

I am sure it will be an "interestingly expensive" experience . I guess my AC cobra will have to wait a while....

They told me they testing was all done in an open air test for audio equipment and they have done guitar amps before and did not expect any issues. I do know that I will need screen the back of the head shells to keep fingers away from hot tubes.

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Lets not forget a few things:

A distributor must be in place to be your legal representative if your products are flagged for CE or RoHs non compliance or your company is sued for any reason "over there".

CE covers general electrical safety, transformer insulation, fusing, exposed voltages or dangerous temps (power tube bulbs), circuit board burn ratings, general component derating, and so forth. EMC is also tested, despite most of us making fully analog non-digital products. They test for RF output, leakage from input, output and power lines is tested to not interfere with other devices in the area. I saw pics of my amps passed through test loops etc...

RoHs covers a list of 7 ingredients (cadmium, lead and a few evil chemicals totaling about 7 "nasties" I think). That means chassis materials, paints, plating, wire, insulation etc and every part in the unit.

Then there is "WEEE". That's the end of life responsibility for disposal, which requires a European distributor or representative to assure your product will not end up in a landfill, as they are legally responsible and pay a hefty fine unless they take (or are willing to take) your unit back at the "end of it's useful life".

Direct sales to customers may be under the radar for now, often treated as "used" or simply not tested nor inspected at customs, especially if shipped UPS, Fedex, or DHL. Direct sales to dealers is basically a legal no-no without the above. No, I am not kidding. Some countries like Japan and Australia are even worse. Yes, it seems like anti-american sentiment and tariffs, which is somewhat what it is, beyond the safety aspect.

Self Certification is done at your own risk, and there are many products bearing the mark with some blatant violations (uncovered power tubes, fuse holders that would allow a finger to contact voltage for example) that some makers seem to be willing to take a risk marking and selling.

AND: The codes change every few years, requiring re-inspection and recertification too.

[markusw]

Yes, it seems like anti-american sentiment and tariffs, which is somewhat what it is, beyond the safety aspect.

I thought the same CE rules apply to european amp makers too?
Hm, maybe that's the reason why there are not too many boutique amp makers here in the EU

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Markus, not totally sure. I think they do, but not certain. I know Alex Neiman from Tube Wonder joked about "what you guys go through", making it sound like Euro builders don't. Maybe he'll chime in.

[Zippy]

AFAIK, if all parts have CE certification, than the wole amp should have, but I'm not expert, all this CE just kills small manufactures.

Are you saying that the assembly is not subject to certification?

What of exposed high voltages?

[FUCHSAUDIO]

The entire amp as a unit is approved. Obviously each and every part is subject to being approved. In many cases, a "Line" or series of products sharing the same vendors and construction materials and methods may be approved.

Internal exposed voltages must be labeled with international symbols for grounds, high voltages, and so forth. There should be no exposed voltages with a unit fully assembled. A properly built CE approved amp has it's power tubes covered by a metal shield, so even if a tube broke, voltages would not be exposed and you could not burn yourself on a power tube.

[qtone]

The new 100% Green amp will be an acoustic with regulated woods.
As if our trusty tone machines would wind up in a land fill especially at
3500 each or more...

I wish to be buried with mine but I guess not..
Id have to have special lined coffin liner too keep the seepage
from both myself and said amp at given time of death, from getting into
the drinking supply and infecting some other poor innocent unsuspecting soul and starting the "Gas" cycle all over again..

As if others would be infected by tone and that sort of thing.
I mean who really spends a lifetime chasing that ?

aside from .......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

[FUCHSAUDIO]

That's the irony of all this. Who would buy a mega-expensive amp, then dump it in a river ?

[qtone]

Just the man trying to keep us down....

I think there is a blues song in dis.

First we outsource all our jobs overseas so someone else can do it cheaper
now they dont want us or our crap because it might cause some 3 eyed fish.

Hollywood is to blame really...
Sally field in that environmental film.
Or was that Julia Roberts also known as <Roben Fords evil twin sister...> ?

The show about love canal dats the one..
not pretty woman either...

The one where kids were sick from toxins...
they saw that and now they dont want our things
clogging up the land fills..

Dumble mountain and two rock valley

I knew this would all come back on us guitarists somehow.

[CHIP]

You can't be twenty on Dumble Mountain.

[ampdork]

Clip of the Q-X1 preamp prototype is up for the interested.

http://youtu.be/0VkaHtnKOM0

Clip of the Paradox PCB amp is also up there too...That amp is NOT a dumble though so not sure it is of much interest here.

[trane34]

Sounds great! I really like the clean tones. Who knew a tele could do jazz so well? What speaker was used?