Steve Farris ODS #075

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Honestly, talk to your average neighbor over the fence and mention Santana, and they go "oh sure..". Mention Ford or Carlton, they likely go "who ?". I played with a few guys last night. One guy was knocked over by my tone. When I referenced Dumble, Carlton, and Ford, all he knew was Ford, because he was a blues player. He said "well, all I know is it sounds amazing". An ODS-100, no channel switching pedal (forgot in in my other car...lol), and a delay in the loop...

Carlos has likely done more for Boogie than Dumble, as they are not obtainable. Add to it that Dumble hosed him more than once, and he's moved over to some clones. It's maybe increased awareness to gearheads in print from interviews, but on TV, he was seen with Boogies on stage, and reputedly Dumble's backstage. It's a unique amp for sure, but like Talbany, I have less and less customers who know or care whether the amps are Dumble DNA or not. Do they sound good ?, do the feel good ?, do they perform reliably every night ? These are important issues, alot more than Dumble anything...

[Max]

I have less and less customers who know or care whether the amps are Dumble DNA or not.

And how do you explain the development of the number of members here during the last few years?:

http://ampgarage.com/forum/memberlist.p ... start=8000

Cheers,

Max

[FUCHSAUDIO]

The people here are not the average player nor average amp consumer Max.

[talbany]

The people here are not the average player nor average amp consumer Max.

+1

Times have definitely changed since pre internet days growing up where the only way to get any real info was Guitar Player and even then amp info was as scarce as finding a good tech (at least around here in DC) 70's.. Where myself and most guitarists I knew were very heavily influenced by their favorite players rig (regardless of tone) take Rockman..SRV seemed to be the last real influential players to really have influenced the mass public in this respect and I believe was the key driver to the Strat boom of the late 80's yet very few know Texas Flood was recorded on a Dumble..What does that tell you!!
.It's no doubt different all over the country.. Most that come in are more interested in gain than tone in an OD amp and as big as Santana is I have never had 1 person ask me about his tone.. By in large the masses still spend most of their money on guitars.. I think the internet is slowly changing this and we here will hopefully help convince them the amp is 1/3 of the sound..
Brain/ Hands
Amp
Guitar
In that order
From my chair.. If it matters!!


Tony

[FUCHSAUDIO]

TRUE-DAT !

[Max]

The people here are not the average player nor average amp consumer Max.

Andy, Tony,

Of course, but that is a bit off topic in my opinion. The question was for my understanding (if I misunderstood, please correct me):

"Why did the prices of Dumble amps skyrocket in the last years - in a time slot in witch the prices for many "Vintage Guitars" came down.

My theory ( in a most simplified version):

Because the number of Dumble amps did not grow at all (OK, perhaps three in every year), and the demand (collectors, guitar players, gearheads, investors etc.) did rise a lot since 1990.

Why?:

Because the awareness, that these amps are and/or have been used by "guitar heroes" has grown. And because the awareness has grown, that they have an other and special kind of tone and timbre, different from what you get out of the mainstream stuff.

Why?

Because the "fuzzlevel" in regard to these amps in all kind of media frequented by guitar players has grown in the last years.

Why?

Because of a lot of different factors:

- The Internet spreads news very fast now
- Clones are reviewed in all kinds of media, and very often these reviews point out, that these clones have been inspired by the "Dumble way" to think about the amplification of an electric guitar.
- Two Hit recording artists (Santana, Mayer) bagan to use Dumble amps and buy Dumble amps. And they have bought some of them on the second hand market for these "ridiculous" prices. This could be perceived as a kind of proof, that Dumble amps are "worth" these "ridiculous" prices.
- Mayer could be perceived as a proof, that the "Dumble sound" is not only something for the babyboomer generation, but something that fits perfectly into a current Pop context, too.
- etc.

All these factors (and etc.) have brought up interest and demand in the last ten years to a higher level as it has been 10 years ago.

This I tried to point out in my posts and not, that I think, that now every "average player" or "average amp consumer" wants to play or buy a Dumble inspired amp.

Cheers,

Max

[Structo]

Yes of course the internet has played a very important role in raising awareness of Dumble amps.

When I talk to people I know, it is only the ones that don't spend any time on a computer that don't know what a Dumble is.
Some others may have read a guitar magazine article about them but the public awareness is still very low about these amps.

I for one am very grateful that first of all, I found this forum which has educated me on just about every facet of these amps and to the members here that freely give advice and offer their knowledge about them.

To me, the ODS type amp is the coolest designed amp I have ever played and it will, in one form or another, always be in my amp arsenal.

[butwhatif]

Here we go again, the continued 'gear makes the player' shit. Not everyone can get a real D tone out of these amps. Many don't have the ability to get a tone let alone a D tone. Those of us that have been there try to educate others about these amps' abilities, but a lot of the time it falls on deaf ears. Most players that know how to get a sound, and/or an original sound out of their instruments, can dig in and play the shit out of them, but face it, many can't tell the difference what they're playin thru, and sound like it. I have begun to think it is an amp for the discerning few, not the masses, which is a good thing --depending how u look at it.

[mojotom]

I do not think Santana helps that much on Dumble reputation, not as much as Ford. For most poeple he's still associated with Mesa.

I think you can find two kind of guitarists, the ones who play and listen to bands and not guitarists. They tend to rely on theirs hears mostly and start with classic gear (Fender, Marshall, Vox...) and evolve from that.
On the other hand some are guitarists in mind and tend to listen to guitar oriented music like Ford, Henderson, Landau, Lukater and such. They learn those guitarists licks and gear from top to bottom and most of them know what kind of guitars/amps/stompboxes they use or have used.

Ask the first ones what a Dumble is and most of the time they didn't have a clue, a few may have heard about it but that's all. The other ones have a better idea of what a D tone is, mainly related to Robben Ford, then maybe Carlton.
SRV is known to have used Dumble but most people think his tone rely on full bore Fenders. They first think Strat, Tube Screamer, Fender and a huge grip on strings.

Recently amps demos on the internet and stompboxes craziness may have allow more poeple to have an idea of what it may be for better or worse.
A zendrive anyone ?

Also I remember trying the tan dumble at Ultrasound a while back without the right chops nor experience playing a wide open tube amp and it was not that great. The amp was very nice for sure but I wasn't up to it so in a way you need some playing to fully appreciate what it has to offer.


Now if you're not famous enough no Dumble will be build for you so the prices may have raise for that reason and somhow the more the amps are cloned the more those amps will keep their values as the real deal.
Last couple of years big time player like Carlton have moved to clones and it could change things a bit.

Do not forget about Ceriatone too. Nik really make the dream amp available for most and lots of people have bought some amps or kit from him.

[bluesfendermanblues]

Here we go again, the continued 'gear makes the player' shit. Not everyone can get a real D tone out of these amps. Many don't have the ability to get a tone let alone a D tone. Those of us that have been there try to educate others about these amps' abilities, but a lot of the time it falls on deaf ears. Most players that know how to get a sound, and/or an original sound out of their instruments, can dig in and play the shit out of them, but face it, many can't tell the difference what they're playin thru, and sound like it. I have begun to think it is an amp for the discerning few, not the masses, which is a good thing --depending how u look at it.

I believe that you are right about D amps being af niche amp for the decerning few. The guitar players that I know (here in Copenhagen) never heard about Dumble amps - they know RF, Ry Cooder and David Lindley - but never paid attention to their amps.

My local music store had a great Fuch ODS 100 on display 6 month ago, and the sales people at the store never heard about Dumble amps either. They suggested me to try the amp on a 'decent' Marshall 4x12, and were stunned about the sound of the amp through a Shur 1x12 Thiele cab instead.

[Max]

Don't mind if I jump in here for a quick one..When I first fired up my 70's #13/40 it didn't exactly thrill me..

Tony,

as far as I understood this, the tonestack of #13/40 (and the "70ies Layout" you've posted here) is not the tonstack of a "classic" amp (like#075, the Farris amp, or other early 80ies ODS)? Or did I misunderstand something in regard to this "classic" topic?

All the best,

Max

[llemtt]

some "classic" amps use a 150k slope resistor with a 47n mid cap

so for my personal convenience this is my mental schema

"classic" -> 47n mid cap 250k bass pot 100k mid pot
"skyline" -> 10n mid cap 500k bass pot (1n across) 250k mid pot

the more relevant difference to me being the mid cap

teo

[Max]

some "classic" amps use a 150k slope resistor with a 47n mid cap

so for my personal convenience this is my mental schema

"classic" -> 47n mid cap 250k bass pot 100k mid pot
"skyline" -> 10n mid cap 500k bass pot (1n across) 250k mid pot

the more relevant difference to me being the mid cap

teo

Tonestacks:

"Skyliner": http://ampgarage.com/forum/files/124_schematic_182.pdf

"Classic" (similar to the tonestack of #075, the Farris amp): http://ampgarage.com/forum/files/124_sc ... 84_208.pdf

"Tony's #13/40 Layout": http://ampgarage.com/forum/download/file.php?id=10532

As you can see, the tonestack of Tony's #13/40 is neither a "classic" nor a "skyliner" tonestack.

Cheers,

Max

[talbany]

some "classic" amps use a 150k slope resistor with a 47n mid cap

so for my personal convenience this is my mental schema

"classic" -> 47n mid cap 250k bass pot 100k mid pot
"skyline" -> 10n mid cap 500k bass pot (1n across) 250k mid pot

the more relevant difference to me being the mid cap

teo

Tonestacks:

"Skyliner": http://ampgarage.com/forum/files/124_schematic_182.pdf

"Classic" (similar to the tonestack of #075, the Farris amp): http://ampgarage.com/forum/files/124_sc ... 84_208.pdf

"Tony's #13/40 Layout": http://ampgarage.com/forum/download/file.php?id=10532

As you can see, the tonestack of Tony's #13/40 is neither a "classic" nor a "skyliner" tonestack.

Cheers,

Max

Great point but I don't think that schematic is like the Ferris amp.. 1st #075 had the center off R/J switch as the boost (lifting the stack) and didn't believe this to be relay driven break bass pot wiper..Also the pictures of #40 and the hand drawn layout HAD did clearly reads .02 and .002 hanging off the bass pot not an 01.. Even the TS between #40 and #13 were different..Although both had basically the same R/J switching network #13 had a 1M Bass and 1M treble pot.. Pretty noticeable difference in tone and functionality..My info was taken from actual pics and a Hand drawn layout done by HAD himself..Oh believe me I would love to get inside the Ferris amp and compare the schematic..That stack posted as classic looks more like the very early ones 100k slope 100K mid .05/ 250K bass( but not a .01 hanging off the bottom) and none of the early ones had relay driven PAB so I am confused;;;
BTW the word classic seems to be tossed around quite a bit myabe you can clerify as to the true definition of the Classic stack and if I need to make some changes to the layout I will be more than happy..

All Best..

Tony

[ChrisM]

some "classic" amps use a 150k slope resistor with a 47n mid cap

so for my personal convenience this is my mental schema

"classic" -> 47n mid cap 250k bass pot 100k mid pot
"skyline" -> 10n mid cap 500k bass pot (1n across) 250k mid pot

the more relevant difference to me being the mid cap

teo

Tonestacks:

"Skyliner": http://ampgarage.com/forum/files/124_schematic_182.pdf

"Classic" (similar to the tonestack of #075, the Farris amp): http://ampgarage.com/forum/files/124_sc ... 84_208.pdf

"Tony's #13/40 Layout": http://ampgarage.com/forum/download/file.php?id=10532

As you can see, the tonestack of Tony's #13/40 is neither a "classic" nor a "skyliner" tonestack.

Cheers,

Max

Great point but I don't think that schematic is like the Ferris amp.. 1st #075 had the center off R/J switch as the boost and didn't believe this to be relay driven either..Also the pictures of #40 and the hand drawn layout HAD did clearly reads .02 and .002 hanging off the bass pot.. Even the TS between #40 and #13 were different..Although both had basically the same R/J switching network #13 had a 1M Bass and 1M treble pot.. Pretty noticeable difference in tone and functionality..My info was taken from actual pics and a Hand drawn layout done by HAD himself..Oh believe me I would love to get inside the Ferris amp and compare the schematic..
BTW the word classic seems to be tossed around quite a bit myabe you can clerify as to the true definition of the Classic stack and if I need to make some changes to the layout I will be more than happy..

All Best..

Tony

Could we see this?