Seems like aesthtically accurate Dumble clones are acceptable now. Haters need not reply. I have respect for Andy and if he considers this acceptable then it probably is. Hoping he weighs in with his perspective.
I'd like to understand where the leaders in this community think the line-not-to-be-crossed is for this type build. If you are going to do this what are the do's and don'ts? I suspect that the distinction is made on the back panel with the serial number or something. I think the sentiment might be something like cloning high-dollar collector cars. A discriminating buyer will be encumbered to know the difference.
Oh wow, didnt expect to see him do an amp with a fake faceplate like that. I've seen people give a lot of flak for doing that even if they're honest about it not being a genuine Dumble.
It's true i've lost my marbles and i cant remember where i put them
My understanding is that Andy Fuchs basically copied HAD's circuit, used a name for it that HAD used for decades but never Trademarked - so Andy Fuchs Trademarked it and now owns the rights to the ODS designation. I doubt if that includes "by Dumble" but who knows.
Edit - I'm told Mr. Dumble never used ODS as a naming convention for his amps.
Last edited by Koop_m on Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
I wonder if Andy did that so that others wouldn't. He also owns the dumble.com domain name. If someone has to control these things it might not be so bad for Dumble that it's Andy.
I'm not sure any harm comes to Dumble or his business by folks making clones. Is there an argument that the cost for a real Dumble would be higher if not for clones? Or that Dumble could sell more volume if not for folks buying knock offs?
The price for a real Dumble is so high compared to clones it seems like there are really two distinct markets. I've never heard of anyone actually buying a clone at market price and getting duped. It feels like the Shelby AC Cobra market to me. Real ones. Super Performance built cars. Factory Five. Kit cars... a place for everyone. Nobody gets excited about the chrome badging.
Same thing with violins. Pretty much everything of quality is a copy of a Stradivarius. That Wikipedia page is worth the read.
By putting 'by Dumble' I think it says, "I've tried as hard as I can to have made an accurate replica", at least from reputable builder like Andy.
Andy saw that dumble.com had expired or something similar, quickly paid to save it, and asked HAD to pay the cost it cost him to rescue it, whatever the registrar fees were, HAD acted like Andy tried to pull a fast one on him and was pretty rude to him. So he kept the domain instead.
I doubt that this is more than a few one offs he intentionally labels as a 'clone' so nobody would act like it's real one... not sure. It's definitely a grey area, you risk getting hit by dumble or his attorneys for sure for this kind of thing, but...
Does "Haters need not apply" mean if you don't agree with what is being said in this thread you don't get to have an opinion? Sorry this is an open forum and you don't get to decide that. The only one who should build an amp and put "by Dumble" on the faceplate is Dumble. Andy owns the trademark to ODS not Overdrive Special and yes, Dumble has gone after businesses legally for violations of intellectual property as have Fender and the Rolling Stones. People can claim they own whatever, there is only one Dumble. It is funny how people who have based their entire careers on copying Dumble's amps love to talk shit about the guy. Pathetic.
CW
Charlie Wilson wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:46 am
It is funny how people who have based their entire careers on copying Dumble's amps love to talk shit about the guy. Pathetic.
CW
Thanks for the question Charlie. Happy to clarify. It means the intent of my original post was to elicit meaningful discussion around the ethics of creating and selling replicas rather than judge those who are either doing it or not. More "this is the ethical standard and how it should be applied" and less "That effing guy!" The portion of your post above represents the 'hating' I was hoping to avoid. Let's move past our feelings about Andy and talk about why 'by Dumble' is acceptable/unacceptable behavior.
Charlie Wilson wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:46 am
The only one who should build an amp and put "by Dumble" on the faceplate is Dumble...People can claim they own whatever, there is only one Dumble.
CW
This is the question at hand. When building a replica how far can one go? If I changed my name to Dumble would adding 'by Dumble' then be OK? Where is the line for this community and our society at large? What constitutes a breach of ethics? Are you saying what Fernandes did in the early eighties is wrong or right? They built an accurate replica but didn't put the Fender name on it. Or that Fender, by representing a vigorous defense of their service mark was the ethical standard? You will remember the case resulted in a very small change to the headstock shape of the strat copies and nothing more. Where is the line for acceptable behavior?
Charlie Wilson wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:46 am
Andy owns the trademark to ODS not Overdrive Special and yes, Dumble has gone after businesses legally for violations of intellectual property as have Fender and the Rolling Stones.
CW
I'd love to hear more about Dumble going after businesses. What else do you know? What is the intellectual property that Howard owns?
Smitty wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 12:03 pm
Where is the line for this community and our society at large?
I think the comments in this thread are a good indicator of where the line is for this community and you have crossed it. As for society at large, I doubt they care.
Charlie Wilson wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:46 am
It is funny how people who have based their entire careers on copying Dumble's amps love to talk shit about the guy. Pathetic.
CW
Thanks for the question Charlie. Happy to clarify. It means the intent of my original post was to elicit meaningful discussion around the ethics of creating and selling replicas rather than judge those who are either doing it or not. More "this is the ethical standard and how it should be applied" and less "That effing guy!" The portion of your post above represents the 'hating' I was hoping to avoid. Let's move past our feelings about Andy and talk about why 'by Dumble' is acceptable/unacceptable behavior.
Are you kidding?
(you seem to pretend it - as far as I can understand - but you're not just asking naïve questions, IMHO)
I do not see the point in discussing why mentionning "by Dumble" is unacceptable or not. Either HAD made it or not (period.) Your name is not Dumble, right?
The Reverb listing is Andy's, not Smitty's. I would say selling production amps with HAD's name on the front panel is a bridge too far, but sorta ok if it's just for personal use, provided there is a clear indication that the amp was built by someone other than HAD so it can't be mistaken for an original; It might get sold to someone else later. Chassis are available printed that way, as are replica Fender chassis and faceplates. Mojo no longer sells replica Fender chassis, so Fender probably decided they were a big enough problem to go after them.
