switchraft switching jack failures

[NickC]

Based on Tom's email post above MCM sells Cliff UK jacks.

Apparently, they must be sitting on some counterfeit stock. I emailed MCM that I only wanted authentic Cliff UK (made in United Kingdom), and not the counterfeit products mentioned in the Cliff UK press release citing the court ruling. I asked them to ship Cliff UK jacks if that's what there were offering, but otherwise cancel the order.

They canceled the order.

I checked their vendor list over the weekend; Cliff UK was not on it but the bogus "rouge" Cliff US was.

I hope they can get this straightened out and start selling the authentic Cliff UK product. I'll buy from them if they do.

[Structo]

I can only imagine how much money this has cost Cliff UK.

The guy that ran Cliff USA apparently got greedy and sent a Chinese company the specs for the Cliff jacks and then resold them in the USA as authentic Cliff jacks, pocketing the increased profit from cheaper manufacturing costs.

Pretty unscrupulous!

And illegal.......

I think it has taken a few years to get to the point where the courts made a ruling in favor of Cliff UK, but now they have to wait for the settlement.

In the mean time, Cliff Ltd in Hong Kong is probably untouchable because of it's nationality.

[dmk]

For the last month or so CE Dist. has been shipping Cliff UK jacks.
I complained about the misleading "Cliff jacks" they were selling, and it seems they listened to all of us !

[Colossal]

Based on Tom's email post above MCM sells Cliff UK jacks.

Apparently, they must be sitting on some counterfeit stock. I emailed MCM that I only wanted authentic Cliff UK (made in United Kingdom), and not the counterfeit products mentioned in the Cliff UK press release citing the court ruling. I asked them to ship Cliff UK jacks if that's what there were offering, but otherwise cancel the order.

They canceled the order.

I checked their vendor list over the weekend; Cliff UK was not on it but the bogus "rouge" Cliff US was.

I hope they can get this straightened out and start selling the authentic Cliff UK product. I'll buy from them if they do.

Nick,

I contacted Cliff UK directly when I was looking to get a bunch of jacks. It took a couple of months to get them (on account that there were coming from the UK). Do you have a photo of the counterfeit stock that MCM was offering?

MCM lists CLIFF ELECTRONICS (the UK parent company) as their vendor for Cliff products, not Cliff USA:
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/manufactu ... S/01000203

Thanks,
Dave

[Structo]

Yes their full company name is Cliff Electronic Components Limited, Surrey UK.

The problem is with all the names.

Cliff USA was the original USA distributor, but they are also the ones that had the knockoffs made in China.

"In 2008, the firm also discovered that a Cliff-branded product returned under complaint from an end-user was not manufactured by an authorised Cliff company or in any Cliff production facility.

It launched an investigation and found that the product in question had been cloned by Cliff Hong Kong and marketed by Cliff Electronic Components, Inc., which was at that time Cliff UK's official distributor in the USA.

This discovery led to the formation of the current authorised USA distributor Cliff Inc."

That is why it is all confusing due to the company names.

I just got a reply from Brandon at AES:
I think even he is confused but he states that they do carry the UK made Cliff jacks so I will be getting those in a few days.

This has been an issue for sometime. Please note there never were any "counterfeit" Cliff jacks.

What happened was that a company acquired the right to use the Cliff name in the US, so that there ended up being two companies legally selling jacks with the name Cliff.
For a time period we did carry the Cliff USA jacks(the ones you don't want.)
However, we no longer stock those, and everything we have now is from Cliff UK.
We even changed the part numbers to reflect this.
So if you placed an order yesterday, you would receive the Cliff UK jacks(the ones you want.)

sincerely,
Brandon AES

[Milkmansound]

I ended up ordering a bunch of the Neutrik Jacks from Mouser, and some of the Mil Spec switchcraft switching jacks with insulating washers.

Nice to hear that I am not alone in dealing with this headache - solidarity!

This materials issue is one more reason to fear ROHS. Speaking of, a friend of mine just showed me an amp he got from a Danish company, and every transformer and tube has to be covered up with either a metal box or cage in order to be ROHS compliant. Not cool - especially if you want to do a quick tube swap. I hope this never passes in the states - not only is it functionally annoying but its not aesthetically pleasing either.

Another thing to note is that the switchcraft jacks seem to fail intermittently - sometimes they are ok, sometimes they are bad. I think heat relates to what sets them off - maybe they are ok in stomp boxes but in tube amps running hot its probably best to avoid them at all costs.

[Structo]

I just received another email from Bruce at Cliff Inc. USA

It is very informative and lengthy.
It is not something I want to post on a open forum.

If you are interested in reading it, please PM me your email address and I will send it to you.

Tom

[Structo]

I received a confirmation email from MCM this morning notifying they have cancelled my order.

Can't ask for more than that. I'll likely order other product from them in the future.

That's weird because Bruce at Cliff told me that MCM had a recent shipment of the UK jacks.

And somebody here put up a link.

I think a lot of people are confused about what is going on but with the recent court ruling it should all settle out soon.

[NickC]

Based on Tom's email post above MCM sells Cliff UK jacks.

Apparently, they must be sitting on some counterfeit stock. I emailed MCM that I only wanted authentic Cliff UK (made in United Kingdom), and not the counterfeit products mentioned in the Cliff UK press release citing the court ruling. I asked them to ship Cliff UK jacks if that's what there were offering, but otherwise cancel the order.

They canceled the order.

I checked their vendor list over the weekend; Cliff UK was not on it but the bogus "rouge" Cliff US was.

I hope they can get this straightened out and start selling the authentic Cliff UK product. I'll buy from them if they do.

Nick,

I contacted Cliff UK directly when I was looking to get a bunch of jacks. It took a couple of months to get them (on account that there were coming from the UK). Do you have a photo of the counterfeit stock that MCM was offering?

MCM lists CLIFF ELECTRONICS (the UK parent company) as their vendor for Cliff products, not Cliff USA:
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/manufactu ... S/01000203

Thanks,
Dave

Hi Dave,

This entire matter is confusing and clouded.

The product photo on the MCM site does not reveal the bottom of the jack where the tell-tale marks are (Cliff UK vs CLIFF 3, 1, 5).

Nowhere, as of yesterday (Sunday), on the MCM site was there any reference to Cliff UK .... instead it was shown as Cliff®.

I sent MCM two emails, to be very clear and eliminate any ambiguity.

Maybe they do have the authentic UK jacks, but that being the case why would they cancel my order when I very clearly indicated I wanted the authentic Cliff UK product?

Also, the MCM volume-discounted price was about a dollar less than other online vendors claiming to sell the authentic jacks. It just doesn't add up.

Anyway, I'm pleased that MCM didn't hassle about the order. If they had shipped counterfeit jacks I'd have been unhappy. Since they did the right thing I will be happy to do business with them in the future.

[Structo]

Hmmm, Bruce said most companies either threw the counterfeits away or off loaded them as surplus to other sellers.

MCM was one that he said got a recent shipment.

Probably somebody in the office dosen't know the whole scoop and just wanted to be careful.

Was this the link you ordered from?

It does seem cheap even at 10 pieces.
The thing I see is the black fiber washers, the fakes have one red one.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/C ... A-/CL1298A

[NickC]

Hmmm, Bruce said most companies either threw the counterfeits away or off loaded them as surplus to other sellers.

MCM was one that he said got a recent shipment.

Probably somebody in the office dosen't know the whole scoop and just wanted to be careful.

Was this the link you ordered from?

It does seem cheap even at 10 pieces.
The thing I see is the black fiber washers, the fakes have one red one.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/C ... A-/CL1298A

Hi Tom,

Yes, that's the product link/page. I put 30 pieces in the shopping cart, was alerted they only had 26 pieces in-stock, and changed the quantity to 25 (since I don't like dealing with back-orders).

You might be right about the office staff not knowing about the counterfeit issue.

Maybe I'm being overly cautious, and completely wrong about this whole deal, but the price still seems suspect to me.

Best Wishes,
Nick


PS I've got 20 or 30 counterfeits with black washers (on the bottom is embossed CLIFF and a number ..... the number was a puzzlement to me so I researched online and that first tipped me off about the counterfeit situation). I've never seen any with red washers. I've installed a bunch of counterfeits, figuring I may as well use them since I paid for them .... but now I'm thinking I'll replace them all as a matter of principal.

[husky]

I just received another email from Bruce at Cliff Inc. USA

It is very informative and lengthy.
It is not something I want to post on a open forum.

If you are interested in reading it, please PM me your email address and I will send it to you.

Tom

Yes there are two sides to this story!

Besides that though.... Cliff UK Doesn't seem to be able to supply half of what we need for pedals alone through their distributors. This might force us to using something different entirely. If they get their shit together I'd be happy to use Cliff UK.

[Colossal]

Hi Tom and all:

The fakes can also have black fiber washers so be aware of that (I have a bag of fakes in my hand). There are several things that make the counterfeits stand out from the real deal. The fakes are quite close but the differences are apparent upon inspection.

Refer to the previously posted PDF from Cliff UK as it shows the major feature; the phony embossed CLIFF and mold number. The real jacks should say CLIFF UK in small letting on the inside, not CLIFF in larger letters. Also, on the solder tabs, the real deal has a slightly more narrow opening for wire than the fakes. I've enclosed a photo showing some less obvious differences along side the photos from CLIFF. The real jack has an overall better appearance, it is subtle but apparent. Hope this helps.

Dave

[M Fowler]

All I know is that I ordered from many sources only to receive fake Cliff jacks and it wasn't until I got my order from colossal that I received genuine Cliff UK jacks.

Mark

[C Moore]

Does anybody have any definitive info-data-tests that show a difference between Cliff jacks and Cliff UK.?
Has anybody compared one thousand of each and seen any kind of "scientific" difference.?
You guys know what I mean. How many times can you insert and extract a plug before the jack fails.....stuff like that. Is there a difference to even be concerned about.?
Thank You