Watford Valves - Harma range

[Littlewyan]

I bought not too long ago a couple of valves from Watford Valve's Harma range. They were the Harma Retro (AKA Tung Sol 12AX7) and the Harma STR (AKA JJ ECC83S) and I have to say I was quite disappointed.

The Harma Retro hummed more than a normal Tung Sol I got from Karltone (he tests his valves well), so was unusable in V1 of my Express and currently resides in V3.

The Harma STR buzzes a LOT more than a standard JJ ECC83S in V2 of my Express, let alone V1 and is unusable. The buzz is almost as loud as the guitar whilst playing! I tried it in V3 of my JTM50 but it just sounded bad, so I stuck a normal ECC83S in there (again from Karltone) and it sounded much better. For some reason there was a lot of hash on top of the notes when using the Harma STR.

So I tried calling the guy at Watford and explained these valves were noisy but he wouldn't have any of it. Point blank refused to listen, just interrupted me and said the valves are fine, it must be the amp. Never mind that whenever I buy valves from Karltone they are fine with no issues and work with no issues in these amps. He just would not accept them as faulty.

My recommendation, stay away from Watford Valves. What a waste of money.

Also before I bought any valves I rang the guy and mentioned how my current (at the time) EH12AX7 valves were a bit noisy, but again I was interrupted and told they were spiral filament so they will be dead quiet. Doesn't matter that they could be from a bad batch or just not screened very well (bought untested), they are spiral filament so thats that. It must be the amp. Even though other tested valves from Karltone work absolutely fine.

There I finally vented!

[jestaudio]

Your not the only one, I refuse to use Watford, utter idiots is being kind, the last time I went to buy valves off them the guy on the end was more interested in selling me what he wanted to rather than the valves I had requested, I use HotRox or Carltone depending what I'm after

[xtian]

Wow, Littlewyan, it's too bad you don't know anything about tubes or tube amps, or you could have explained why you think it was faulty tubes and---whoops, there, he cut you off again.



Customer service is a dying art. I think there's a place for it in the modern world.

[Littlewyan]

Do Hotrox test their valves though?

Customer service does seem to be going downhill a bit. I email some places saying that I'm looking to buy some valves, can they tell me bout xyz and I don't get a response. I've already said I'm going to spend money with them, so surely they'll want to reply!

[Leo_Gnardo]

Do Hotrox test their valves though?

Untested, they're probably better than Watford's.

I'm getting the impression that perhaps Watford buys tubes that FAIL other vendors' tests, at a deep discount naturally, then give them fanciful names and sell them to rubes that don't know better.

Customer service does seem to be going downhill a bit. I email some places saying that I'm looking to buy some valves, can they tell me bout xyz and I don't get a response. I've already said I'm going to spend money with them, so surely they'll want to reply!

Probably not worth their time unless you're buying thousands of dollars, pounds, euros worth. Or millions of yen.

Stick with the companies that have served you well.

[guitarmike2107]

Do not buy the untested valves from hotrox, fork out for the tested ones.... I suspect the "untested" ones are the ones that failed the test... Ask me how I know this....

[jestaudio]

Never had a bad valve so far from Hotrox, I phone up tell them what I,m after, pay the money and they send them out, maybe being a repeat customer makes a difference but I,ve always had good service

[Littlewyan]

I'll never buy any valves untested. Just not worth the hassle.

I did speak to Hotrox and they said all valves are tested unless you get the option of 'factory tested', then you can opt out of having them tested. But considering you're only saving like £1 its hardly worth the risk.

I'll stick to Karltone and I might try some stuff from Hotrox. They do have a larger selection than Karlone. However I'm building up a stock of NOS at the moment. I've been converted! Mullards + 67 Marshall Clone = Tonal Heaven

[guitarmike2107]

its the factory tested ones I have had issues with from them, put a whole bunch of Tung Sols in the "use with caution bin" as they were all noisy and microphonic, never had that many issues with factory tested valves from anywhere else, including the factories.

I do use their tested valves when I am in a pinch though and not had any issues

[Littlewyan]

Thats interesting. I might give some factory tested valves a go in future. I noticed Jellyfish Audio sell the Mullard 12AX7 reissue which is supposed to be a decent sounding valve. They don't test their valves but when I emailed them they were very confident that the valves are tested well at the factory.

I once bought a variety of 12AX7s from Tube Town, which I think do test their valves normally, but they were all very noisy. Even the one selected for the V1 position. This was back when I first built my Express. From memory I bought a few Electro Harmonix, a couple of Sovtek WB and WCs and a Tung Sol. The Tung Sol is good enough to sit in V1 of my JTM50 but it was noisy in the Express.

[Malcolm Irving]

I've bought a lot of valves from Hotrox. Only ever had a bad valve once - I sent back a matched pair of Gold Lion KT66, one of which was faulty. They sent me a new matched pair straight away.
I think a valve can test good, but after a serious shake-up in the mail it can go faulty on its way to you.

[guitarmike2107]

I buy factory tested valves from lots of places that are fine, honestly if you bought 10 x JJ ecc83 you may have 2 that are a little noisy or microphonic, so when I buy a few factory tested valves and find they are all poor then one can not help but think you have been conned... just saying.

I have not pursued the NOS valve route, there is quite allot on offer from modern production, and when you are pushing valves hard they don't last long as I would like...

[Littlewyan]

Yes some valves can go bad in the post. I guess it depends on how grumpy the postman is that day as to whether or not the fragile sticker gets taken seriously.

That does certainly sound like a con Michael. You should give old valves a try. Buy yourself a Mullard ECC83 i63, they're only £35 each on Ebay.

[Malcolm Irving]

I’m not sure what level of testing they undertake at the factories. Maybe they test for reasonable plate characteristics. But noise and microphonics? I don’t know.
Do they test every valve thoroughly (at the factory) or just on a sampling basis?
I expect it’s possible for a batch of noisy tubes to get through the factory tests.
If a buyer believes a particular tube is not up to a reasonable quality standard, they can send it back and ask for a replacement. Then it just depends on whether the buyer and seller can agree on what ‘reasonable quality’ means.

[Littlewyan]

Well in Watford's eyes its your amp and not the valves.