What equip do u use for recording?

[guitbldr]

I am a guitar player wanting to start doing some GOOD quality recording. I have done the usual analog mic to computer stuff, but now am interested in going to a digital interface, to the computer, mix with other instruments/voice, final mix and on to CD. I have about a grand to spend but would like to keep most of it in the bank for a future guitar project. What would the masters here recommend??

Erik

[benoit]

I'm no master but I think anyone would need to know a few things to answer your question. For example: what style of music do you play? What recordings do you love the guitar tone on? A tweed deluxe might make a bluesman one happy camper but completely frustrate a metalhead.

[guitbldr]

Thanks for the reply. I would say I lean toward the metal side, although I may cross over from time to time. I really have the amps I need, ie. TW Peavey Classic 50, 1987 Plexi,and a 4 x 12 cab loaded with greenbacks. My question was ment to be more centered around how to get the sound of choice into the computer recording program. Do you all use a mic or do you use an analog to digital interface? Which ones do you use? What brands? That is really what I need to know.

Thanks

Erik

[billyz]

If you want the sound of your amp then use a mic. Shure sm57's are an obvious choice. Many prefer a ribbon mic for guitar amps, Royer's are on the top of everyones list but a more affordale one might be a Fathead.
Go into a mic pre to an Analog to digital convertor to your favorite software like Protools LE. Or use Garage band in a Mac laptop.
Digidesigns, Lexicon, and Mbox, all make nice packages with mic pre, a/d convertors and software.

Many studios like a direct signal track in addition to your amp/mic track. this can be reamped or run through a simulator program , like ampfarm, amplitude etc. this can be mixed with your original mic'd track or may be the sound on it's own.

there are a lot of choices. For live recordings I have had pretty good results with a little pocket recorded like a Zoom. It can do MP3's too.
For the internet you want to convert your recording to MP3. for CD's you want to keep it in a higher/better sounding type file like WAV.

[Stanz]

Echo. Reasonably priced PCI cards or firewire interface for a computer. You can't go wrong with them. Good preamp is actually really important easily the most important part of the recording chain. In a pinch, using the pres from a Mackie mixer is not a bad way to go. I ended up building a tube mic preamp from Jakob Gyraf's G9 design, puts you in the high end bracket at a modest price. If you are building guitar amps, this should not be too hard to do. When I first looked at doing one, it occured to me, "Hey, it is a pre amp, or half a guitar amp. OK, I have already done that."

http://www.gyraf.dk/gy_pd/g9/g9pd.htm



You can order pre-made PCB here and he'll ship them any where in the world, plenty of support at this site also, much like here, except for high end studio gear.
http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10776

SM57 is not bad for guitar recording, especially for metal, but also consider a Sennheiser 421 for a large capsule dynamic mic (better low end). Also, a decent condenser is always a good tool, great for capturing high end on a clean amp setting, and of course vocals. I also like an SM81 for recording acoustic guitar.

[benoit]

I don't have a lot to add other than it's worthwhile to record both a mic'd cab and a direct line (straight from the guitar), so a passive DI box would be nice to have, and possibly also a reamping device like the ones Radial sells.

[Structo]

Can you clue in a newb about the dual signal inputs?
What benefit do you get from having a mic'd input plus a direct input?

[Stanz]

Can you clue in a newb about the dual signal inputs?
What benefit do you get from having a mic'd input plus a direct input?

That would be re-amping. The main idea is that in setting up the recording, you have numerous variables, amp settings, speaker cabinet (selection), microphone selection, microphone position, even which amp you are using, that all go toward the final recorded sound. One goal in recording is to capture "The Take". A worst case scenario is having "The Take", yet there is an issue with one of the previously mentioned variables.

What i like to do is record the live amp like one would normally do, but also capture the direct output from the guitar. Use a good high quality direct box which has a split out, one for direct output, and another that you would feed to the amp. Each gets its own separate track. What you are now able to do is to output the direct guitar track into an amp, where you can now play with the above mentioned variables. Key to all of this is having the proper box to feed the amp so it appears as a signal from the guitar. This is called a ReAmp box. I really like the Radial box. Built like a tank, has two outputs, one which is via a transformer for true isolation.


http://www.radialeng.com/di-xamp.htm
http://www.radialeng.com/re-prormp-faq.htm

One thing I also like to do is make sure I am in the room with the amp so I get the feedback on the strings. This will get recorded on the direct track.

[Andy Le Blanc]

its a purity of signal thing........ if there is a defect in the in the sound of the
amp but not in the performance...... you still have the performance

or you have an uncolored signal to use for other things later

or you can mic the amp for a certain delay and mix the two signals as effect

[guitbldr]

OK OK...You have barraged me with so much good info that I am going to do some more homework! I hate that part, I would rather play. But since the world hasn't realized my extreme raw talent and provided me with a tech crew to rival Eddie's, I am going to have to do it myself!! I feel confident that y'all have recommended a pre like the G9 as part of the mix and I am confident I can build one with my Dad. He has built many amps now, one with your help (TW). I can get a good mic for sure so that is taken care of. What is your pick for the software itself and the A/D converter in particular?

Most humble regards

Erik

[Stanz]

I hate that part, I would rather play.

I started as a guitar player, but also engineer, produce, play various instruments. Yes, that is the most important part. Engineering should not interfere with playing.

As for software, I am using Sonar. Everyone will tell you the one they use is the best, but in the end, the all do a pretty good job. Sonar, Cubase, Protools (but it is packaged with the hardware, mucho $$$) even Reason works very well. Sonar has various levels of capabilities at reduced prices, Producer being the top of the line version.

AD/DA converter, I would go with Echo. Reasonable price, and it is not a cheap toy, like some are. Once again, various versions at various prices to suit your needs. I really only need to channels of inputs for what i am doing. If you are recording a band, or will have numerous inputs being recorded at the same time, you will need 6 or more inputs. Most come standard with 8 outputs for monitoring.

Brian

[selloutrr]

if you don't have a computer recording setup, good and bad news, get an old protools rig but $1000 is going to be used up quick if you only want to track guitar and get the best result possible try to find the following items used.

the signal chain as so....

#1. Ribbon mic
( Royer 121 your whole Budget but worth it)
(Beyer M500 or 200 series $500 but worth it)
(Reslo RBT Vintage Beatles Great for Blues rock $200)
(Octava They made a Large Russian MIL ribbon about ten Years ago)
(Fostex Ribbon it's rare but cheap, and Awesome!)
(RCA, Keep Saving!)
(Blue Woodpecker I've had pretty good results it's all about placement)

#1.A Dynamics
(Shure SM57/58)
(Sennheiser/Telefunken MD421)
(Blue Ball)

#1.B Condensors
(Audio Technica AT4050)
(AKG 414eb)
(AKG 451eb)
(Neumann U87/ai)
(Scheops)

#1.C Tube
(Audio Technica AT4060)
(AKG C12v)
(Neumann U67)


#2. A High End Cable! Not Monster try Beldon, Mogami or Canari Quad Star the low IMPEDANCE makes an audible difference. Your tone will thank you!

#3. Discrete Preamp or Tube Preamp depending on your Style
there are two ways to get this with in your budget but both require you to be handle with a soldering iron and have a basic under standing of power and signal flow.
#3.A Build/clone your own it's possible to clone a Never 1272/1290 the preamp of the faimed 1073/1081 for under $300 a CH. with better then close results.
#3.B Find a channel from a vintage console suck as an MCI, Trident, Wardbeck, Calrec, Neotek.... And build a rack and power supply then wire it up to access the features, input / output / inserts / etc. It's a great way to get the colors of a pro studio on a smaller buget.
#3.C If your not comfortable with any of that save your $ and buy a nice preamp and rest happy that you are set for life and any tonal issues wont be your preamp. Never 1073 / 1272, API 312, Trident B Range, Grace, DW Fearn, Amprex 351.

You can find the digidesign 888 / 24 Interface on ebay for under $350 and if you research the sister company the name escapes me the same converter is selling for less then $200.

If you buy a great signal chain to track threw you will find that you wont need much if any EQ in the box and your tone will sound full lively and true to your ears. I'm sorry i don't have a quick cheap way to get a great sound but i've found nothing is quiet as true as studio gear when they say you get what you pay for. Just shop around and you'll be able to find some deals. If your in a big city try the paper people buy a piece here or there all the time and then give up and sell it when they realize the cost of actually getting thier feet wet. It's cheaper to buy a boat!
I personally go to is a combination of a Royer 121, 2 SM57, MD21 with the capsules time aligned threw Smarrt Live about 3" off the cone with the second SM57 delayed back from the first to defeat the 3K boost. With a 414 4 feet off the floor at least 6 feet away with the speaker putting out between 101-112 SPL metered. In the eary 90's i bought all digital and was out dated almost as quick as i openned the box, it all depends on how serious you want to be it your just having fun by some berhinger and get the job done if you want to do it like the records you hear follow my list and you'll be in the ball park season to taste and serve the tone!

[selloutrr]

if you don't have a computer recording setup, good and bad news, get an old protools rig but $1000 is going to be used up quick if you only want to track guitar and get the best result possible try to find the following items used.

the signal chain as so....

#1. Ribbon mic
( Royer 121 your whole Budget but worth it)
(Beyer M500 or 200 series $500 but worth it)
(Reslo RBT Vintage Beatles Great for Blues rock $200)
(Octava They made a Large Russian MIL ribbon about ten Years ago)
(Fostex Ribbon it's rare but cheap, and Awesome!)
(RCA, Keep Saving!)
(Blue Woodpecker I've had pretty good results it's all about placement)

#1.A Dynamics
(Shure SM57/58)
(Sennheiser/Telefunken MD421)
(Blue Ball)

#1.B Condensors
(Audio Technica AT4050)
(AKG 414eb)
(AKG 451eb)
(Neumann U87/ai)
(Scheops)

#1.C Tube
(Audio Technica AT4060)
(AKG C12v)
(Neumann U67)


#2. A High End Cable! Not Monster try Beldon, Mogami or Canari Quad Star the low IMPEDANCE makes an audible difference. Your tone will thank you!

#3. Discrete Preamp or Tube Preamp depending on your Style
there are two ways to get this with in your budget but both require you to be handle with a soldering iron and have a basic under standing of power and signal flow.
#3.A Build/clone your own it's possible to clone a Never 1272/1290 the preamp of the faimed 1073/1081 for under $300 a CH. with better then close results.
#3.B Find a channel from a vintage console suck as an MCI, Trident, Wardbeck, Calrec, Neotek.... And build a rack and power supply then wire it up to access the features, input / output / inserts / etc. It's a great way to get the colors of a pro studio on a smaller buget.
#3.C If your not comfortable with any of that save your $ and buy a nice preamp and rest happy that you are set for life and any tonal issues wont be your preamp. Never 1073 / 1272, API 312, Trident B Range, Grace, DW Fearn, Amprex 351.

You can find the digidesign 888 / 24 Interface on ebay for under $350 and if you research the sister company the name escapes me the same converter is selling for less then $200.

If you buy a great signal chain to track threw you will find that you wont need much if any EQ in the box and your tone will sound full lively and true to your ears. I'm sorry i don't have a quick cheap way to get a great sound but i've found nothing is quiet as true as studio gear when they say you get what you pay for. Just shop around and you'll be able to find some deals. If your in a big city try the paper people buy a piece here or there all the time and then give up and sell it when they realize the cost of actually getting thier feet wet. It's cheaper to buy a boat!
I personally go to is a combination of a Royer 121, 2 SM57, MD21 with the capsules time aligned threw Smarrt Live about 3" off the cone with the second SM57 delayed back from the first to defeat the 3K boost. With a 414 4 feet off the floor at least 6 feet away with the speaker putting out between 101-112 SPL metered. In the eary 90's i bought all digital and was out dated almost as quick as i openned the box, it all depends on how serious you want to be it your just having fun by some berhinger and get the job done if you want to do it like the records you hear follow my list and you'll be in the ball park season to taste and serve the tone!

[guitbldr]

I have so much to mull over that I am going to take a break to investigate. As a matter of courtesy, I would like to say thank you to all who have contributed. I really appreciate the input and I will check back with the results.

Regards
Erik

[Andy Le Blanc]

everybody has their tricks and preferences.....
the one thing that I would encourage you to do.... no matter what you do
try to get gear that uses balanced ins and outs...... go over your cables
and rack to isolate the grounds..... and really read the manuals

this alone will make a huge difference no matter what the endevour.....