Truly a new 12AX7???

[Ears]

fifty bucks? made in China? F that!!!
('nuff said)

My guess is that comments such as above will only do their little bit to make China even more determined to drive USA inc. out of business.

I doubt it.

The Chinese have correctly assessed the Western appetite for cheap disposable goods, they stepped forwards to manufacture cheap disposable goods. "Chinese quality" is like Chinese democracy, it's lip service to a concept that's apparently alien to their culture. While we're at it we should examine Western concepts that simply don't translate or transplant to other cultures like democracy for instance. In a true democracy the people frequently elect ineffective leaders. Erm...

We could look to Japan for a model of an emerging industrial nation. Roll the clock back 30 years, look at where Japanese quality was. Look at it now. If China pulls that trick off we have something to worry about.

Then look at China's last minute attempt to clean up Beijing for the Olympics. That puts an exclamation point on several persistent Chinese problems like pollution and overpopulation.

Try this and see what you learn... start a yeast culture in a jar full of sugar water. The yeast will happily reproduce consuming sugar and excreting alcohol. Unless you're talkin' Sam Adam's Ninja Yeast somewhere between 10% and 14% alcohol all the yeast die.

Now... how big is the jar? Is it the Asian continent or the whole freakin' planet?

No worries, the survivors will start a big ol' Utopian nudist colony in Enn Zed!!

NZ will be (is) going out of business along with USA, and the currently cheap goods will only remain cheap for as long as competition and a viable manufacturing base remains in the "West". Unfortunately all the MBAs in the West have singing in chorus for almost two decades to advise that the west abandon maintainance of its manufacturing base.

I've read that some tube manufacturers in China are now into a third generation of tooling and that, unsurprisingly, quality has risen dramatically with each re-fit. Some chinese tubes are now getting good name. Your example of Japan's history is apt.

There is a market for high quality as well, and China will fill it. And they'll do it cheaper than anyone else, for the time being at least....

Anyway, I reckon that JP's comment was a little insulting toward (how many?) billion people, even if it was made in jest.

[CaseyJones]

NZ will be (is) going out of business along with USA, and the currently cheap goods will only remain cheap for as long as competition and a viable manufacturing base remains in the "West". Unfortunately all the MBAs in the West have singing in chorus for almost two decades to advise that the west abandon maintainance of its manufacturing base.

That's perfect. We don't want any industry in our Utopian nudist colony.

MBA = Master of Black Arts. If they were so goddam smart they'd be able to balance a sustainable economy.

[benoit]

Anyway, I reckon that JP's comment was a little insulting toward (how many?) billion people, even if it was made in jest.

I don't think it needs to be taken that way in this context. What I got from it was a commentary on the quality control (or lack thereof) apparent based on current production tubes that come out of China. It's not a slur against the nation, just the observation of a trend in a certain market.

Furthermore, I lived in China for 6 years. My father and many of his acquaintances have had experience trying to get products manufactured there and done right. Factories cut corners all the time to make as big a profit as possible. We saw it not only first hand in trying to manufacture goods, but also in everyday life. The materials and workmanship, even in supposed four star hotels are often mediocre at best. Are there hardworking honest Chinese people who take pride in their workmanship? Of course! But this is much more the exception that the rule. I don't say this to pass judgment on anyone, but merely as an observation of what is.

If I had to guess at why things are this way I'd say it was brought on by the introduction of Communism, which meant that effectively there was no reason to excel, since the rewards were nothing special. I think it's gotten a lot better in the last few years but I also believe one of the biggest things holding progress back is the Chinese (and to some degree generally asian) concept of face/dignity. Casey mentioned the last minute cleanup attempts in Beijing, which I think is a good example of this. They try to fix "problems" that are cosmetic only (such as people selling local specialty foods on the street out of a cart, or open-air grocery markets) and often add to rather than detract from the appeal of a city, "modernizing" the city's look, spending huge amounts of money on these things rather than taking care of real problems (try an unemployment rate of 40-50%).

I digress. In any case I wish China the best, and I think the will figure things out in time. I definitely miss being there.

[Ears]

MBA = Master of Black Arts. If they were so goddam smart they'd be able to balance a sustainable economy.

You got that definition right!

[Ears]

<snip>

I digress. In any case I wish China the best, and I think the will figure things out in time. I definitely miss being there.

It's good to get first-hand observations.

[benoit]

<snip>

I digress. In any case I wish China the best, and I think the will figure things out in time. I definitely miss being there.

It's good to get first-hand observations.

It's funny because in the space of a minute sometimes I'll want to yell at someone for criticizing China - I grew up there and feel a bit possessive sometimes - and then want to tell them I know from experience that they're more right than they know.

[nickt]

MBA = Master of Black Arts. If they were so goddam smart they'd be able to balance a sustainable economy.

Anyone else notice the descent into incompetence and stupidity these Mother**** Bull*** Artists have brought to the work place over the last decade since they became pervaisive? Or am I just old and crusty? ... (er... don't answer that)

[Tubetwang]

Benoit has nailed it!

[Andy Le Blanc]

the economic model here is to blame for much of what we whine about and
its our own fault...... working out of the house is the where you live.....
so life at home must facilitate work...... every time you start your car
buy some thing that was not created in your local economy.... turn on a tv
consume out of convienence..... walk in the door at big box..... you tighten
the chains of your own dependance........... oh well...... too bad......
the chinese aint stupid...... economic daylight there looks like slavery to us
and they'er just contracting for the work anyway...... you want it cheap....
and you dont want to work for it........ get enough stupid
lazy monkeys in one spot and call it freedom..... what do you expect?

fun little rant

the point is that we are all market dependant and have no control
It must be a new evolotionary adaptation
lets call it creative adaptive exploitation.... I can make buck off you by
creativly exploiting whatever enviroment I find you wanting in......

[CaseyJones]

the economic model here is to blame for much of what we whine about and
its our own fault...... working out of the house is the where you live.....
so life at home must facilitate work......

Here's another cute little trend in the U.S. economy... local zoning. It's my belief that under the U.S. Homestead Act everyone has the right to earn a living from a home business. If not a living at least earn a few extra bucks. But... pop yer head up to where yer neighbors can see it, they'll scream bloody murder about you runnin' a business in a "residential zone". Then we have all sorts of B.S. condo associations and homeowner's associations that have their own rules, they all have a commonality.... that commonality is that they want you to schlep off daily to some stupid job somewhere else.

A home business saves fuel, you're already there.

Many of us can run an amp business out a closet, if not a closet a corner of the basement or part of a spare bedroom. I bring up amp building 'cuz we all build amps. It don't matter what you do, it matters that you do it. Yer ol' lady can do manicures, yer teenager can run a skateboard shop or be a tattoo artist. There are a lot of microbusinesses that will work just fine as long as you keep your overhead to an absolute minimum. If you're compelled to rent a storefront, borrow startup money or move out to the industrial park that can make a marginal business inviable.

It don't sound like much but it all adds up. Instead of lookin' to big business to bring hundreds of jobs to a community at a time... there are hundreds of thousands of jobs out there just waitin' to happen.

The trick is to keep yer overhead low low low. Municipalities will bend over backwards and kiss ass to get big business and developers into their run down downtown areas or into their underutilized industrial space. The same municipal governments will make a small businessman jump through hoops and run a gauntlet until his or her minimal capital evaporates.

We can wait for Bill Gates or Bill Ford to fix the economy or we can do it ourselves.

[Andy Le Blanc]

there was once a time where every other house porch was a business
now the sausage people glaze over in the light of their TV's
confident that walmart will fullfill their need of want......
and if your not afraid to use it, with a credit card, life can be made to
appear fantastic with, a large outstanding credit balance.... of course

there is a market for tubes..... still.... and quality..... hang on until this I-pod
generation gets old enough to figure out what they've been missin...
itll be called the "steve jobs is a job pod".....

is there a reputable source for product reveiw ..... for tubes
so we dont have to take risks..... like unkown suppliers on E-bay?

[CaseyJones]

is there a reputable source for product reveiw ..... for tubes
so we dont have to take risks..... like unkown suppliers on E-bay?

Here's the review: Good, bad or indifferent... don't buy imported junk on general principles. NOS Mullards are a different story, they were imported when the $U.S. was strong against the pound.

I can think of at least one vendor who has been in business since 1947. They'll sell ya U.S. made 12AX7 pulls, tested and certified for $7.00 each. 12AYs are a better deal at $5.00 each. Used 6V6GTs... $7.00 each.

How 'bout 5Y3 pulls for $2.50 each?!!

Shop around, stock up. There's no good reason to buy imported junk.

[AdrianJ]

Fender bought GT?
Man, what don't they own?

Gibson.....






I think....

[AdrianJ]

is there a reputable source for product reveiw ..... for tubes
so we dont have to take risks..... like unkown suppliers on E-bay?

Here's the review: Good, bad or indifferent... don't buy imported junk on general principles. NOS Mullards are a different story, they were imported when the $U.S. was strong against the pound.

I can think of at least one vendor who has been in business since 1947. They'll sell ya U.S. made 12AX7 pulls, tested and certified for $7.00 each. 12AYs are a better deal at $5.00 each. Used 6V6GTs... $7.00 each.

How 'bout 5Y3 pulls for $2.50 each?!!

Shop around, stock up. There's no good reason to buy imported junk.

Care to PM me with the details of this supplier...I'm in need of stocking up while the £ is strong against the $...

[Lonely Raven]

Fender deosn't own Best Buy......yet......

I'm not sure it's widely known yet...but Fender and Gibson are opening up guitar stores in Best Buys across the nation.

My Dad is a salesman in one of the Magnolia stores (in a best buy), and he called me up the other day to tell me Buddy Guy was there for a small show in their new Fender store...I'm like...FENDER store!