DC Heater Question

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martin manning
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Re: DC Heater Question

Post by martin manning »

Cameron wrote:Most of the "hum" you are hearing is probably the tube. Floating the filament will most always kill the hum. If you are hearing a "buzz" that would be more of a reason to use DC or adjust the layout.
Nobody but the OP has seen what this thing looks like, or a schematic, and the description leaves me wondering... there was a mention of two heater "taps?" does that mean there are two separate filament windings? Do they have center taps?

Cameron, I think you are over-generalizing a bit... "Hum" would indicate that the source is 60Hz unrectified AC, and "buzz" would likely be from 120Hz ripple voltage on rectified DC. Either one could get into the audio path in a number of ways.

In the common set-up using AC heaters, the source of excessive 60Hz hum is likely to be poor lead dress, where the AC on the filament circuit is getting into the audio path, or the lack of a suitable ground reference. A half-wave rectified bias circuit is also a potential source of 60Hz.

If there is a 120Hz buzz, then the source is likely to be unwanted coupling of ripple from the HT. If a rectified DC heater circuit is introduced, then that is another potential source of 120Hz.

In this case, the OP has powered the filament circuit with a battery, and found that the hum went away. That identifies the source, but not the mechanism. I'd bet on a lead dress or grounding issue unless it's a very low level hum.
Jana
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Re: DC Heater Question

Post by Jana »

I agree Martin. I have built more than a few high gain amps that had no hum (using the standard 6.3vac heaters). Lead dress and grounding is paramount in a high gain amp.
bal704
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Re: DC Heater Question

Post by bal704 »

Here's a couple of pics of the build. The far left preamp tube is the EF86 tube, which isn't installed currently. The 2 wires in the upper RH corner are the heater CT's. I've got them lifted to be able to place them at ground or on the PT cathode for testing.

[IMG:1024:574]http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx19 ... CT1894.jpg[/img]

[IMG:1024:574]http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx19 ... CT1895.jpg[/img]
markr14850
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Re: DC Heater Question

Post by markr14850 »

bal704 wrote:Wall wart into the LM1085 circuit, and the output to the heaters.
Why do you need to regulate the output of the wall wart?

I could see sticking a cap on it if there's some HF switching noise. But a regulator seems like overkill.
bal704
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Re: DC Heater Question

Post by bal704 »

I was going to use the 12V wall wart to feed the LM1085 to get 6.3V DC. Short of re-wiring my tubes (and not using the EF86) I thought I'd give it a shot.
Cameron
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Re: DC Heater Question

Post by Cameron »

martin manning wrote:
Cameron wrote:Most of the "hum" you are hearing is probably the tube. Floating the filament will most always kill the hum. If you are hearing a "buzz" that would be more of a reason to use DC or adjust the layout.
Nobody but the OP has seen what this thing looks like, or a schematic, and the description leaves me wondering... there was a mention of two heater "taps?" does that mean there are two separate filament windings? Do they have center taps?

Cameron, I think you are over-generalizing a bit... "Hum" would indicate that the source is 60Hz unrectified AC, and "buzz" would likely be from 120Hz ripple voltage on rectified DC. Either one could get into the audio path in a number of ways.

In the common set-up using AC heaters, the source of excessive 60Hz hum is likely to be poor lead dress, where the AC on the filament circuit is getting into the audio path, or the lack of a suitable ground reference. A half-wave rectified bias circuit is also a potential source of 60Hz.

If there is a 120Hz buzz, then the source is likely to be unwanted coupling of ripple from the HT. If a rectified DC heater circuit is introduced, then that is another potential source of 120Hz.

In this case, the OP has powered the filament circuit with a battery, and found that the hum went away. That identifies the source, but not the mechanism. I'd bet on a lead dress or grounding issue unless it's a very low level hum.
move an 6.3v ac close to the grid you get buzz not hum.
some tubes...and mostly newer tubes pick up hum. I would day you are over thinking it.....I think the hum-dinger would fix this amp......going on what he posted. Battery gets rid of hum = try hum-dinger......its so easy not to try it first......and almost always works. I do agree that it could be layout or grounding also.
bal704
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Re: DC Heater Question

Post by bal704 »

I've got a pot for the humdinger in the mail. The LM1085 just arrived first so I've been playing with it.
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martin manning
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Re: DC Heater Question

Post by martin manning »

Cameron wrote:move an 6.3v ac close to the grid you get buzz not hum.
I already defined "hum" as 60Hz and "buzz" as 120Hz, so to me it's hum.

bal, those pictures are not much help. I can only see them small and low-res. Which channel hums? EF86, 12AX7, or both? If you still have a lot of hum with the CT grounded or elevated at the power tube cathodes I don't think a pot will fix it.
Cameron
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Re: DC Heater Question

Post by Cameron »

bal704 wrote:I've got a pot for the humdinger in the mail. The LM1085 just arrived first so I've been playing with it.
Your thinking of the fender way.....Sometimes called a hum dinger by some pepole too....it wont work here.
No pot needed.....2 resistors and a cap Its like this......
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Cameron
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Re: DC Heater Question

Post by Cameron »

martin manning wrote:
Cameron wrote:move an 6.3v ac close to the grid you get buzz not hum.
I already defined "hum" as 60Hz and "buzz" as 120Hz, so to me it's hum.
So....Thats how you think. I think a different way.....were both just guessing. I have allot of high-gain amps out there....I do have some idea of what Im talking about.
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martin manning
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Re: DC Heater Question

Post by martin manning »

bal, what is the frequency of this hum? 60 or 120?
bal704
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Re: DC Heater Question

Post by bal704 »

Here's a link to a bigger pic:

http://s755.photobucket.com/user/bal704 ... 5.jpg.html

I'm not sure how to tell if it's 60 or 120 Hz. What's the easiest way to figure it out?

The EF86 and clean channels sound fine. It seems to be the gain channel only having the issue.
Last edited by bal704 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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martin manning
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Re: DC Heater Question

Post by martin manning »

Actually, I guess it has to be 60Hz since powering the filaments with a battery killed it. Schematic?
Last edited by martin manning on Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tillydog
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Re: DC Heater Question

Post by Tillydog »

bal704 wrote:Here's a link to a bigger pic:

http://s755.photobucket.com/user/bal704 ... 5.jpg.html
Still difficult to see ( I don't know what's happened to Photobucket recently :( )

Are those green and yellow wires your heater supply?

If so, they could use a lot more twisting, particularly near the valve sockets. Highly likely to be related to your problem IMHO.

0.02p
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martin manning
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Re: DC Heater Question

Post by martin manning »

Maybe this will work better... I agree, the lead dress could be much better on the filament wires.
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