Best speaker for an AA964 Princeton or Vibrolux???

[dehughes]

Hello there,

I'm looking to build an amp similar to the AA964 Princeton or Vibrolux and was wondering what people think is an ideal speaker for this circuit in these amps. I'm stuck between the two...can't decide if I want to go bigger or smaller ampwise. Regardless, it would be my first 1x10 amp, and I'm not experienced at all with 10" speakers, so your recommendations are much appreciated.

[BluzMike]

Do you refer to the bf reverb versions? Those would be ideed preferable over the Princeton Amp and - which is my personal taste - also over the brown 1 x 12" Vibrolux Amp.

For a Princeton Reverb build I would consider a 1 x 12" configuration, which has been a standard mod since the early 70ies. You just get a slightly bigger tone out of the tiny cab this way. Great sounding 12" speakers for that amp are the blue Celestion G12 Alnico, a Jensen P12N (broken in RI is not badd, but old organ pulls would be preferable) or a JBL D-120F (for only slkightly more chime).

If you insist on the 1 x 10", you might want to try a Jensen P10Q RI or a C10Q one of those CTS Alnicos found in late bf and most early sf Super Reverbs and Vibrolux Reverbs for a bit less cutting tone.

Another consideration could be to include the popular Paul C mod for a bit more power and headroom in combination with a 12" speaker. This could be complemented by using a slightly bigger output transformer. Mojo sells a bronw/black Vibrolux/Tremolux replacement with 4 and 8 ohm taps. Even a bf Deluxe Reverb style OT would give you bit more iron for a bigger, better defined tone.

You could even go as far as to use a bf Deluxe Reverb style power transformer to get the amp loud enough for club gigs (and better sounding, too). I happen to have a Fender bf Deluxe Reverb RI PT, which needs a slightly bigger cutout in the chassis, but am not sure if shipping from Germany would be worthwhile.

Last not least make sure you buy a quality pinewood cab, which differs from a bf original in that it has its baffle board made from pinewood plywood. Those are more stable and also sound much more lively and open.

For the bf Vibrolux Reverb I may recommend using a bf Bassman OT in combination with strong enough speakers. A nice little mod would be a tremolo output switch.

Have fun!

[BluzMike]

Do you refer to the bf reverb versions? Those would be ideed preferable over the Princeton Amp and - which is my personal taste - also over the brown 1 x 12" Vibrolux Amp.

For a Princeton Reverb build I would consider a 1 x 12" configuration, which has been a standard mod since the early 70ies. You just get a slightly bigger tone out of the tiny cab this way. Great sounding 12" speakers for that amp are the blue Celestion G12 Alnico, a Jensen P12N (broken in RI is not badd, but old organ pulls would be preferable) or a JBL D-120F (for only slkightly more chime).

If you insist on the 1 x 10", you might want to try a Jensen P10Q RI or a C10Q one of those CTS Alnicos found in late bf and most early sf Super Reverbs and Vibrolux Reverbs for a bit less cutting tone.

Another consideration could be to include the popular Paul C mod for a bit more power and headroom in combination with a 12" speaker. This could be complemented by using a slightly bigger output transformer. Mojo sells a bronw/black Vibrolux/Tremolux replacement with 4 and 8 ohm taps. Even a bf Deluxe Reverb style OT would give you bit more iron for a bigger, better defined tone.

You could even go as far as to use a bf Deluxe Reverb style power transformer to get the amp loud enough for club gigs (and better sounding, too). I happen to have a Fender bf Deluxe Reverb RI PT, which needs a slightly bigger cutout in the chassis, but am not sure if shipping from Germany would be worthwhile.

Last not least make sure you buy a quality pinewood cab, which differs from a bf original in that it has its baffle board made from pinewood plywood. Those are more stable and also sound much more lively and open.

For the bf Vibrolux Reverb I may recommend using a bf Bassman OT in combination with strong enough speakers. A nice little mod would be a tremolo output switch.

Have fun!

[dehughes]

Cool Mike...thanks for the recommendations. Indeed, I'll have to use a Deluxe-sized PT, as the cutout in my chassis is too large for a Princeton PT. However, I'd like to really stick with a true Princeton circuit and not try to make it bigger or better, being as I'm building a Deluxe right now anyway. I'm looking for something smaller than the Deluxe with a different speaker and vibe, and was drawn to the Princeton as it is so portable and is a lower wattage amp. Regarding the PT again, I think Mercury Magnetics has a lower B+ version of the Deluxe PT that would fit in my chassis yet get me close to the proper Princeton ratings.

[Firestorm]

If you listen to the second Norah Jones album, all of the electric guitars were played through the same Princeton Reverb. It was set up stock with one difference: the speaker (10") was massive overkill in terms of power handling. Based on magnet size and voice coil diameter, I'd guess it was at least 50-watt. Unfortunately I have no idea what it was specifically -- just something we had lying around. Based on that, since there is no such thing as a C10N, you might consider trying a 10" Jensen Neo speaker. Or a Tone Tubby ceramic. Of course, the C10Q will likely sound fairly "correct." I wish somebody would build a speaker showroom where you could A/B everything the way you can with hi-fi.

[dehughes]

Norah Jones...she's playing with (or has played with) this guy, who is great, and is part of the reason I'm interested in Princetons:

http://www.jimcampilongo.com/

The thing is, I only have 3 preamp tube spots on this chassis (and no room for expansion....), so I'm unsure if I can build a proper Princeton Reverb on it. So, what's the "magic" about the Princeton Reverb....being as I don't care for reverb...

[Firestorm]

The "magic" is the extra gain stage used for the reverb mix. It's not set up for much additional gain, but it makes all the difference in the world. I have converted several non-reverb Princetons into Princeton reverbs, so if your chassis is anything close to the Fender specs, you can find room to add a tube and the reverb tranny. You just have to be creative.

[Bear]

So, what's the "magic" about the Princeton Reverb....being as I don't care for reverb...

Relative to the non-reverb Princetons of similar era, an extra gain stage. You can do that with three tubes without neutering the trem circuit, which is one of the better Fender trems.

(Personally, I'm more interested in the 6G2 Princeton and the 5F11 Vibrolux, but I don't expect many people to agree.)

Bear

[BluzMike]

Then you might want to stick with the Princeton Reverb circuit, just leaving away the tremolo (not so great IMHO anyway) and Reverb. Using one triode of the second 12AX7 the same way as the reverb recovery amp would give you more gain than a standard Princeton Amp has.

If you enjoy the tone of small Fender amps being cranked and getting compressed and midrangey, you will probably be happy with a stock set-up. This is most likely also true if you play mostly at home.

In a recent interview published in Tone Qest Report Campilongo claimed to turn his Princetons up to 10 on the volume, and even on the bass. This would sound horrible on a stock Princeton, so I gues his service guy raised the filtering, put in a higher wattage tight bottom speaker and maybe even changed the values of the tone caps to .022s.

If selecting a speaker, also make sure its efficiency is high so that the Princeton becomes louder. Old JBL D-110Fs and 10" Altec Alnicos might be interesting to check out as well as Ted Weber's speakers, too.

If you like definition and transparency in an amp and, I would definitely go for bigger than standard iron.

[BluzMike]

I forgot to mention EV10s, which were used by SRV in his Super Reverbs. For those as well as for JBLs, Altecs and other heavier speakers I strongly suggest a speaker board made of plywood, and preferably slightly thicker than stock.

[dehughes]

Dude, you guys rock! Thanks so much! Keep the info coming...I'm saving all this on my hard drive and will definitely implement that non-reverb-but-use-the-gain-stage thing on this amp.