Steve Farris ODS #075

[Max]

Max,

Why was the treble bleed removed from the design during the transition to the Skyline?

Thanks!

Jelle

Jelle,

to avoid any misunderstanding:

All of the 4th generation amps I could put my nose into and have seen on pictures did have the "h.f. taper".

As far as I remember (not 100% sure!) the skyliners I know first hand did not have the "h.f. taper", just like this one:

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392

But this does not mean that this could not be just accidental, and 90% of the skyliners have the "h.f. taper"?

But if it's the case, that all (or most) skyliners don’t have the "h.f. taper", or not:

I don’t have any idea, why (exception: with a post-OD stack the "h.f. taper" wouldn’t make much sense of course).

Does someone else here know more?

Great weekend!

Max

[Max]

Max, thanks again
I also heard that Karl sold his Dumble. About two months ago I talked to Luki (his drummer on Moondancer) and he thought that Karl still has it. He wasn't sure about it though...
Do you know of an image of Karls Dumble or a similar one?

May I ask who's Dumble it was that prompted Karl to buy his own?

BTW, if you happen to be in Vienna in August... Karl has two gigs at Porgy...

Peace,

Markus

Hi Markus,

as far as I still remember what Karl has told me around ten years ago, it was like this:

He once played at a festival, but did not bring along his own amp. A friend of his did lend him his ODS combo. He was floored and asked, if his friend would perhaps part with it, but it was not available at this time. It looked similar to this one, 3rd generation, "export Boogie-style cabinet":

http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... known%206/

Some times later he did lend this ODSR

http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... known%205/

to do a slide track for a Michael Köhlmeier record. He was floored again and now did not rest until his friend parted with the combo.

There once has been murmured, that this ODSR has been the one of Lowell George. I am not sure about this, as the one Lowell George played, had only one pilot light (look at the Rockpalast video I’ve linked to). This one has two. The left one lightens up when you engage the OD (as far as I remember now). But perhaps this second pilot light has been mounted by Alexander after Lowell George passed, who knows? Best you ask him when you meet him in August. Then you can ask him too, if he still has the combo. I don’t think so, but I am not 100% sure about this.

Here you find all the "Moondancer" tracks with the Dumble for a short checkout or a download if you are interested:

http://music.napster.com/karl-ratzer-mu ... D/12559027#

To get an impression of the tone of this ODS combo I can recommend "On and On" and "Village Feeling". As far as I remember, he never changed channels but always played in the OD mode and cleaned up the tone with the guitar volume (at least live he played the Dumble like this).

Cheers,

Max

[dogears]

Skyline amps have the .001uf on the bass pot to ground. There is a high frequency smoothing due to this cap I believe.....

Maybe that is why....

Max,

Why was the treble bleed removed from the design during the transition to the Skyline?

Thanks!

Jelle

Jelle,

to avoid any misunderstanding:

All of the 4th generation amps I could put my nose into and have seen on pictures did have the "h.f. taper".

As far as I remember (not 100% sure!) the skyliners I know first hand did not have the "h.f. taper", just like this one:

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392

But this does not mean that this could not be just accidental, and 90% of the skyliners have the "h.f. taper"?

But if it's the case, that all (or most) skyliners don’t have the "h.f. taper", or not:

I don’t have any idea, why (exception: with a post-OD stack the "h.f. taper" wouldn’t make much sense of course).

Does someone else here know more?

Great weekend!

Max

[markusw]

Hi Markus,

as far as I still remember what Karl has told me around ten years ago, it was like this:

He once played at a festival, but did not bring along his own amp. A friend of his did lend him his ODS combo. He was floored and asked, if his friend would perhaps part with it, but it was not available at this time. It looked similar to this one, 3rd generation, "export Boogie-style cabinet":

http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... known%206/

Some times later he did lend this ODSR

http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... known%205/

to do a slide track for a Michael Köhlmeier record. He was floored again and now did not rest until his friend parted with the combo.

There once has been murmured, that this ODSR has been the one of Lowell George. I am not sure about this, as the one Lowell George played, had only one pilot light (look at the Rockpalast video I’ve linked to). This one has two. The left one lightens up when you engage the OD (as far as I remember now). But perhaps this second pilot light has been mounted by Alexander after Lowell George passed, who knows? Best you ask him when you meet him in August. Then you can ask him too, if he still has the combo. I don’t think so, but I am not 100% sure about this.

Here you find all the "Moondancer" tracks with the Dumble for a short checkout or a download if you are interested:

http://music.napster.com/karl-ratzer-mu ... D/12559027#

To get an impression of the tone of this ODS combo I can recommend "On and On" and "Village Feeling". As far as I remember, he never changed channels but always played in the OD mode and cleaned up the tone with the guitar volume (at least live he played the Dumble like this).

Cheers,

Max

Hi Max,

thanks a lot for this story about Karl's "Dumble-history"
Maybe I will have a chance to ask him when I see him in August.

Just listened to "Village Feeling". It put a smile on my face. His sound is also fantastic! Thanks for the tip!
It's a shame that I don't have this record of one of our local guitar heroes at home. Will buy it immediately.

Have a nice weekend!

Cheers,

Markus

[jelle]

That was my guess too. Yes, there is high freq smoothing due to that network.

Skyline amps have the .001uf on the bass pot to ground. There is a high frequency smoothing due to this cap I believe.....

Maybe that is why....

Max,

Why was the treble bleed removed from the design during the transition to the Skyline?

Thanks!

Jelle

Jelle,

to avoid any misunderstanding:

All of the 4th generation amps I could put my nose into and have seen on pictures did have the "h.f. taper".

As far as I remember (not 100% sure!) the skyliners I know first hand did not have the "h.f. taper", just like this one:

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392

But this does not mean that this could not be just accidental, and 90% of the skyliners have the "h.f. taper"?

But if it's the case, that all (or most) skyliners don’t have the "h.f. taper", or not:

I don’t have any idea, why (exception: with a post-OD stack the "h.f. taper" wouldn’t make much sense of course).

Does someone else here know more?

Great weekend!

Max

[Max]

Hi Max,

thanks a lot for this story about Karl's "Dumble-history"
Maybe I will have a chance to ask him when I see him in August

.

It's a pity, would like to come myself. But must still go with crutches for at least a month (too stupid to walk straightforward and now have a torn ligament), so travels are no fun right now.

Just listened to "Village Feeling". It put a smile on my face. His sound is also fantastic! Thanks for the tip!
It's a shame that I don't have this record of one of our local guitar heroes at home. Will buy it immediately.

You will like it! Great music, one of the best guitar players of our days (IMHO) and on the last track ("I Fall In Love Too Easily") you can listen to Karl Ratzer together with Karl Hodina (only the two of them without the band), one of the best accordeon players of our days (IMHO).

And it is really a great reference for the tone of a 3rd generation ODS combo, too, as here you can listen to this kind of ODS not only being used for slide (as most often) but for different styles and tones: slide, mellow tones with humbuckers, aggressive tones with his Tele and more.

I really can recommend it.

All the best,

Max

[Max]

That was my guess too. Yes, there is high freq smoothing due to that network.

Hi Scott,

Hi Jelle,

yes, this may well be the reason. But don't you think that it is of advantage (in a functional sense) to be able to adjust the h. f. content of the OD to personal taste (without the HRM post-OD stack), as with the "h.f. taper" of the "transition" and 4th generation amps? So why do you think did he remove it in the skyliner ODS and not modify it to work properly in this configuration too?

Have a nice weekend!

Max

[dogears]

Max,

For years I used a HF Taper control, either internal, or external pot, in my amps. I found better sensativity, feedback, and harmonics by not sending signal to ground at thyat OD point. I prefer the setup RF uses fwiw. Really really super bright, crazy harmonics, sensativity, and feedback as a result, then smoothed with the loop and the loop cables. Kind of like using EQ in the loop..... Let the amp OD do its magic, then smooth.

In my Glaswerks SODII, I have the taper control on the outside (Gary incorporates it as a standard feature). I can really compare this way. It also has loop/no loop bypass, and master volume bright cap switching! Everyone always greatly prefers no taper, bright on, and loop in (with simulated cable capacitance).

Also, many of these earlier HF Taper amps had 100K plate loads, no? A few exceptions, but I'd imagine most did? The 220/150 amps are not nearly as bright in my experience.

That was my guess too. Yes, there is high freq smoothing due to that network.

Hi Scott,

Hi Jelle,

yes, this may well be the reason. But don't you think that it is of advantage (in a functional sense) to be able to adjust the h. f. content of the OD to personal taste (without the HRM post-OD stack), as with the "h.f. taper" of the "transition" and 4th generation amps? So why do you think did he remove it in the skyliner ODS and not modify it to work properly in this configuration too?

Have a nice weekend!

Max

[talbany]

. I found better sensativity, feedback, and harmonics by not sending signal to ground at thyat OD point

+1

I never liked the HF taper either.. It has to effect the clipping symmetry and phase as well sustain...Then to take all those nice even/odd order harmonics generated and toss them to ground just never made any sense to me...Sorry for the de-rail.. Back to the cool stuff!!

Great weekend..

Tony

[butwhatif]

Love the hf taper, but it has to be set right, and this can be a small tedium. But if you want to sound more like all the bright amps out there, turn it off. The tapered hi's in circuit are such a signature sound, something about it unattainable with anything else. In some dry dark sounding rooms I don't use it. Outdoors, big stages, recording, I always use it, sounds like nothing else. For me it's easy to make it bright, not as -to make it feel right.

[Max]

Also, many of these earlier HF Taper amps had 100K plate loads, no? A few exceptions, but I'd imagine most did? The 220/150 amps are not nearly as bright in my experience.

Scott,

first of all, thanks for your personal perspective on the h.f. taper topic, completely understand what you are pointing at. My own taste is just a bit different. I am not such a big fan of the 90ies RF tones e. g., prefer his TTYD tone. A bit of an exaggeration for clarification: the more of a DL or SSS I find in an ODS, the better I like it.

That is why I always turn the h.f. taper on "full open" (if the ODS I play has one and his owner agrees with this adjustment) .

The Dumblelator I like in the loop of an ODS (even without effects in the loop of the Dumblelator) because it can "fatten up" the tone, when wanted, and can add some more silver or glass with its bright switches, when wanted, and not because it "smoothens" things. I personally never thought, that it was necessary or desirable to smoothen the tone of one of the original ODS amps I had the opportunity to play. Just my personal taste of course.

In regard to the 100k/100k or 220k/150k topic:

As far as I know, most of the 4th generation amps have the "h. f. taper" (removed in #124 when updated to skyliner specs?) and at least many of these have the 220/150 configuration, too.

Even some of the "transition generation" amps like #94 do have the 220/150 configuration and the "h.f taper", as far as I understand this discussion

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 94&start=0

and these schematics ("transition generation" #094 & "4th generation" #123)

http://ampgarage.com/forum/files/094_sc ... 12_132.pdf

http://ampgarage.com/forum/download/file.php?id=5079

But #124 ("4th generation" "classic" updated to "skyliner"), #075 ("transition generation") and #093 ("transition generation")

http://ampgarage.com/forum/download/file.php?id=12954

Tony posted here

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11906

and probably made for Carlos Rios and used by Robben Ford on "Keep On Running" (Brandon's guess: "Cannonball Shuffle"),

all do have the 100/100 configuration.

So, from all I know up to now, I am not sure, if the 100k/100k configuration or the 220k/150k configuration is the more usual one for the "transition" and "4th generation" (all "classic") amps (up to series numbers in the 15x - 18x range, where you meet the first "5th generation" amps built originally with a skyliner tone stack and the last "4th generation" amps originally built with a "classic" tone stack).

Perhaps Alexander always has made an individual choice for these "transition generation" and "4th generation" ODS amps, depending on the individual taste of each individual customer?

What do other members here know in regard to these questions:

What is the most usual configuration for these "transition generation" and "4th generation" ODS (all originally built with a "classic" tone stack)?

- 100/100 or 220/150?

- with or without "h.f taper"?

- 100k or 150k slope resistor?

All the best,

Max

[markusw]

It's a pity, would like to come myself. But must still go with crutches for at least a month (too stupid to walk straightforward and now have a torn ligament), so travels are no fun right now.

Hey Max,

sorry to hear that.
Hope you can get rid of the crutches soon.
Karl plays on 27th and 28th of August.
Maybe you're lucky...

All the best,

Markus

[Max]

Hey Max,

sorry to hear that.
Hope you can get rid of the crutches soon.
Karl plays on 27th and 28th of August.
Maybe you're lucky...

All the best,

Markus

Hi Markus,

after having recovered I might just take the next airplane to Marseille and chill in Cassis for some time:

http://www.ot-cassis.com/us/decouvrir/mer/

But I would take along Karl as an mp3 file of course.

Have a great time,

Max

[lousse]

Max,
Are you from France?
I'll be in Toulon the first two weeks of august !

[Max]

Max,
Are you from France?

Not in the sense of where I've been born and did grow up. But it became my second home already in my late twenties.

I'll be in Toulon the first two weeks of august !

I fear, that I won't be able to travel again that early in August, but if so, I'll send you a PM.

Have a great week,

Max