Tweedle Dee build demo video with Strat, Les Paul, and Tele

[Chris Brown]

Hi y'all! I finally converted my 5e3 to a Tweedle Dee! I basically just did the necessary changes to match it to the circuit that Charlie Wilson shared with us. Sorry I didn't get any build footage, but at least people can get a chance to hear the circuit with a few different guitars in the same speaker and recording environment... Warehouse ET65, close mic off center, Shure Unidyne IV.

I kind of made the changes in steps... First I changed the preamp values and separated the cathodes. Loved it! Then I did the most of the PI changes and swaped to GZ34 and JJ6V6. Even better!! Finally I made the last few changes including adding the PI trimmer, changing the dropping string, and adding the last power node for V1. Fantastic!! The changes to the power nodes seemed to actually tame the amp a tiny bit... maybe just tightening it up slightly.

Sorry, I don't have voltages... I know that's goofy but it sounded so good I zipped it up and started gigging it! I'm afraid if I open it back up and measure, if it's not spot on to the known voltages that I'll be tempted to mess with it haha

One difference here from the circuit as we know it here is I kept the Pre PI Master. It's totally usable and gets some killer sounds at really reasonable levels. I am tempted to remove it and try the 10M, but not yet.

In the weeks since I made the video I have swapped to a bandmaster OT and gigged it a few times with SS rect / 6L6. It's LOUD... loud enough for an outdoor gig with a loud band. Obviously it's never a "clean amp" at gig volume, but with some guitar volume control it does a wide range of tones. It feels like I'm cheating the system to have such a small amp with such a big sound. I have small bar gigs next week and I'll probably swap the GZ34 and 6V6 back in and give that a run.



Anyway, thanks everyone for contributing here at the bottomless pit of amazing amp info!

[ChopSauce]

Thanks for sharing!

I'm really glad I could hear&see a video such as this one. I nevertheless feel a bit frustrated by reading the report of your assembling a tweedle dee starting from a 5E3. Just "loved it" and "fantastic"? I wish I could read more precise comments - yet this is more just something of my own curiosity.

By the way, the tweedle dee seems to be one most recommended application for this loudspeaker - from what I'm hearing through the computer -

[m.alexander]

nice !!!!

[martin manning]

Very nice sounds, and thanks for the very informative demo. What power transformer are you running 6L6's from?

[m.alexander]

Very nice sounds, and thanks for the very informative demo. What power transformer are you running 6L6's from?

i my tweedle i use custom 20w 8k for 6v6 nas 5881 , but i try in next building 35w /40w 6k6 like tweed blues deluxe first run

[Chris Brown]

Thanks for sharing!

I'm really glad I could hear&see a video such as this one. I nevertheless feel a bit frustrated by reading the report of your assembling a tweedle dee starting from a 5E3. Just "loved it" and "fantastic"? I wish I could read more precise comments - yet this is more just something of my own curiosity.

By the way, the tweedle dee seems to be one most recommended application for this loudspeaker - from what I'm hearing through the computer -

Yeah the speaker is a great match.. I tried a couple of Webers, C Rex, Jensen ceramic, and an EVM12L. The ET65 just sounded the best to me. Creamy with the overdriven tones but not sterile or weird in the high mids.

It's all subjective, but I can expand a bit on how the changes affected the sound.

When I changed the preamp tube values and separated the cathodes it knocked out a lot of the 5e3 flub by tightening up the low end. This also gave it a bit more gain... less clean headroom but more clarity in the sound. This also got rid of most of the channel volume interaction.

The PI changes took care of the rubbery 5e3 phase inverter distortion and gave the amp more of a sweet overdrive with complexity and clarity... in it's stock form the 5e3 can almost sound like a silicon fuzz face when it's dimed... that is gone. Also, the GZ34 added quite a bit of touch sensitivity so that you can play soft and get a smooth cleaner tone, and then dig in and get it to overdrive.

After adding the PI trimmer and extra power node it just seemed a bit more refined in the high mids and punchy in the low end.

[Chris Brown]

Very nice sounds, and thanks for the very informative demo. What power transformer are you running 6L6's from?

It's an old Mission amps MA20/18... I couldn't find any reliable specs but I did find some old posts discussing the Mission 5e3 being specd for 6V6 or 6L6.

After making this video I installed the Bandmaster OT and when I really pushed it at an outdoor gig I could tell the PT wanted to sag just the slightest bit so I would guess its somewhere around 150ma on the HT. It's not getting hotter than it did with 6V6 (five seconds of finger tips on the iron after an hour of playing is my scientific approach to transformer heat lol) so I'm not worried about it failing, but bigger iron would not be a bad thing. As it is though, the amp sounds great so that's not on my priority list.

[ChopSauce]

Thanks for the details!

[CaseyJones]

After making this video I installed the Bandmaster OT and when I really pushed it at an outdoor gig I could tell the PT wanted to sag just the slightest bit so I would guess its somewhere around 150ma on the HT. It's not getting hotter than it did with 6V6 (five seconds of finger tips on the iron after an hour of playing is my scientific approach to transformer heat lol) so I'm not worried about it failing, but bigger iron would not be a bad thing. As it is though, the amp sounds great so that's not on my priority list.

It was clearly Dumble's intent to improve on a stock 5E3.

Built a small herd of these by now. I'm on my Mark V layout due to incremental tweaks along the way. Also had a few happy accidents, for example Mark V plays jazzy clean with a transition to overdrive so smooth it often takes me by surprise. Before I know it I'm rippin' it up.

The Dumble lineage is evident in the overdrive tone. It sounds like Sonny Landreth's Dumble.

Not exactly a Bandmaster transformer, I'm using a relatively pedestrian OT from an old Vibroverb reissue. Couple notes there:

I would rather see 200ma plus on the B+ rail using 6L6s. Besides, 6L6s into a Bandmaster OT and then into a single 8 0hm speaker is a big fat impedance mismatch.

Most tweed Deluxe power transformers have no hope of making anything like full power from 6L6s. 6L6s may push the amp back towards flabby farty stock tweed Deluxe tone.

V1 is my rock / jazz switch so to speak. It's jazzy and articulate with an old Telfunken in there. And RCA black plate conjures a more traditional Fender roar.

Very nice sounds, and thanks for the very informative demo. What power transformer are you running 6L6's from?

It's an old Mission amps MA20/18... I couldn't find any reliable specs but I did find some old posts discussing the Mission 5e3 being specd for 6V6 or 6L6.

The original Mission Amps 5E3 PT was a collaboration between Bruce Collins and the late Ted Weber. Bruce designed a PT useful for a broad range of amps and Ted had them manufactured in China. Then came the falling out. No disrespect to Ted although Bruce may have his own version of this story. I can't imagine trying to run a business and not being able to breathe. Weber continued to offer the Bruce Collins designed PT which is indeed a cool transformer and it is indeed useful for a broad range of amps. Difficulty was the Chinese Weber 5E3 transformer was never quite reliable. They wouldn't get hot, they would just stop working for no apparent reason. Weber's offshore source kept "improving" and uprating the transformers. They kept failing (sooner or later) anyway.

That's all ancient history, now. Due to "supply chain failure" we get what we get and we're lucky to get it.

I'm hoarding a small stash of Magnetic Components NOS.