Dumble Overdrive 102/183—Critical?

[ViperDoc]

I found a video of the actual ODS 183 where the owner says in the comments he thinks the OD in 183 is "bad". I have no idea what that means for him, but I assume the clip has the amp set without it. Sounds glorious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm-ks96qc8k&t=110s

I've never designed or tuned a secondary tube overdrive circuit, so I'm sure, Whopper, you are correct about all the nuances that can accommodate the gold star tone for each player. Kingsley makes the Page DS which, I believe, is intended to be run in the effects loop of an amp for that series "inside the preamp" effect; perhaps not quite the same as the onboard OD circuit, but a tenderfoot option not to be overlooked.

What do you all like in your particular OD circuits? How good does this cork sniffing get? Pretty good, I'd bet.

[ijedouglas]

I found a video of the actual ODS 183 where the owner says in the comments he thinks the OD in 183 is "bad".

Any chance you can link the video?

What do you all like in your particular OD circuits?

IMHO the OD is the main reason for these amps. The cleans are good (especially on the BM) but the OD is what really shines. Nice tight lows, note separation and nice clear top-end with out the ice pick. Very dynamic and touch sensitive. The only downside (and why I think artists like RF and LC stopped using the OD channel) is having to use a Dumbleator with time based effects. It adds a whole level of complexity to your rig.

How good does this cork sniffing get? Pretty good, I'd bet.

Expensive, frustrating and time consuming if you try find the stuff Dumble used

[ViperDoc]

Any chance you can link the video?

Forgot to post that. Added above, thanks.

[ijedouglas]

Forgot to post that. Added above, thanks.

Thanks.

Yeah, I think Tag is talking about his HR Deville. Knowing Tag, there is no way in hell he would ever call the OD of #0183 bad

[WhopperPlate]

Charlie, yes, "hi-fi" is a good descriptor of 102, but not hi-fi in a sterile, or disparaging way. It's just very precise. I get that exactly.

Exactly , not in a bad way at all, a very good way actually ! It just shifts the upper midrange response in a brighter direction. Little bit too much fur and hair on the tone for me.

For myself I notice the biasing of the preamp tubes cathodes and plates @2.2k w/ 150k largely delivers the response I am discussing . Any amplifier circuit I have toyed around with this configuration presents itself similarly. Bouncy lower mids that “smear” and don’t push through a dense soundstage as effectively. In overdrive this comes across as very rich, and that 3.3k @ 220k just sets it on fire with harmonics !

Harmonic feedback was never easier with a les Paul or a Stratocaster, but I definitely preferred this with a les Paul. Almost made it feel more stratty . The “hi fi” thing with the strat needs a bit of tweaking to get that clean fender upper mid spank that I am familiar with.

What do you all like in your particular OD circuits? How good does this cork sniffing get? Pretty good, I'd bet.

I like the typical standard fare: straight 1.5k @ 100k , 100k input ( higher for more give imo) , 100k or 250k level and 100k ratio , metal film plates, carbon film signal path , 5 uf cathode bypass . This with either a classic stack or a skyliner works well. Tweak to taste .

Changing values is one well paved avenue , changing component brands and composition becomes much more esoteric and can inspire much more disagreement lol. But seriously , 102 can go in a different direction if you decided to deviate from the recipe and use entirely carbon film or metal film resistors throughout the circuit.

For instance , awhile ago I built 183 circuit with all takman resistors ( $$$ I wouldn’t again ) …the fidelity was over the top … even just placing a pair of those on the bias grids was enough to add a huge amount of high end clarity. Swapping values would never entirely remove that frequency response .

I inevitably deduced the source if the issue and replaced them all with KOA and xicon . Night and day . If I played the middle pickup of a Stratocaster before it would spike your head , afterwards it was fine and musical.

So yes, cork sniffing gets things pretty good if you have the nose to sniff out the goods , and you don’t need to buy the expensive stuff lol. A guy like Dumble would have countless hours of experience hearing the differences, and the culmination of that becomes self evident in his work , infamously using RadioShack parts lol. Sniff away !

[ViperDoc]

All very good. I am putting the final touches on an Express build and noticed that the silver mica caps I was using were quite loud and shrill when I decided to swap in a ceramic disc. It was like you said, night and day. So much smoother. I even swapped in an expensive CDM 470pF treble cap (the ones that look like grilled cheese) and the sound was so ice pick, I tore it out and went back to the disc. Done. Like Colossal told me, that's why the Howard used them, I guess. That's about as much as I've sniffed, but might have to put more of that on the menu.

Here's how familiar I am with product codes: there are Dale MF resistors that look like Bratwurst, I seem to have trouble finding those recently. I did pickup up some other smaller Vishay MF (either cream or red bodied) to use on plates, not sure how close those are to those larger ones.

@igedouglas, I think you're right about the DeVille/183 OD. I misinterpreted that.

[dorrisant]

(with a pot tuned to 400k)

So maybe a 250k pot shaved up to 400k or 500k strapped to 400k instead of the normal 500k?

[ijedouglas]

and you don’t need to buy the expensive stuff lol. A guy like Dumble would have countless hours of experience hearing the differences, and the culmination of that becomes self evident in his work , infamously using RadioShack parts lol. Sniff away !

If only those cheap parts were still available Q-lines are like hens teeth... as are a bunch of other stuff that was readily available in the 80s and 90s.

[ViperDoc]

So maybe a 250k pot shaved up to 400k or 500k strapped to 400k instead of the normal 500k?

I think the 102 schematic notates the bass pot as being measured at ~400K in the chassis.

[Colossal]

(with a pot tuned to 400k)

So maybe a 250k pot shaved up to 400k or 500k strapped to 400k instead of the normal 500k?

1M audio pot with 680k across the outer lugs

[ViperDoc]

I post the following a) having just stumbled upon it, and b) not knowing anyone's particular feelings towards Joe Bonamassa, although this isn't the Gearpage, so take that for what it's worth. Here's a video of Joe B running a Dumble into a Super Reverb. A bit noisy, but I think these sounds do not suck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gprsh5Vn4MQ&t=718s

Edit: I’m sure you’d agree that the “properly designed” ODS doesn’t need this treatment, but I thought you might at least find it amusing. I’d never seen it before. Kinda cool, I think.

[WhopperPlate]

A lot of guys combine amplifiers, specifically more than a few notable guys who have played Dumbles. As JB says they each fill in the gaps of the other, especially in overdrive .

The other day I was helping my friend (whose an amazing violinist!) repair his Fender Bassman 50 head and after all was set we turned his amplifier on with a classic stack clean channel , and it was great how the slightly harder sound of the fender mixed with the refined tone of the other. Huge sonic footprint lol ! The rest of the band might have things to say !

[Chris Brown]

Yeah, I think Tag is talking about his HR Deville. Knowing Tag, there is no way in hell he would ever call the OD of #0183 bad

He clearly is.. another user asks him about the Deville and if it's modded further down in the comments

[jazzbass]

I really dig my 2nd gen hybrid ODS, It is untouched on the inside for 5 yrs now, no corksniffin, although I did have my fair share.
Having build a lot amps incl #102 made me realize the #102 is not my cup of tea, I can appreciate the SSS002 , Bluesmaster and 2nd gen hybrid more.
Thats the merit of building amps yourself.

Hi Erwin,

I totally agree with you, the 2nd Gen Hybrid is really, really a fantastic amp. I haven't been able to make the Bluesmaster sound the way I like it yet, especially the OD part and I think I'll turn it into another kind of Dumble amp, I don't know which one yet ..... give me an idea please.

I am also very attracted to the SSS series but I have two wishes. The first is to understand syntactically the differences in sound between # 002 and # 005.
The second wish is to make the project on a standard ODS chassis and not on their chassis which is way too big to fit over the speakers I use.

Also on this subject I would like your opinion .
Thanks, a hug.

Franco

[erwin_ve]

Hi Erwin,

I totally agree with you, the 2nd Gen Hybrid is really, really a fantastic amp. I haven't been able to make the Bluesmaster sound the way I like it yet, especially the OD part and I think I'll turn it into another kind of Dumble amp, I don't know which one yet ..... give me an idea please.

I am also very attracted to the SSS series but I have two wishes. The first is to understand syntactically the differences in sound between # 002 and # 005.
The second wish is to make the project on a standard ODS chassis and not on their chassis which is way too big to fit over the speakers I use.

Also on this subject I would like your opinion .
Thanks, a hug.

Franco

Hi Franco,

I find it difficult to advise you on a new ODS build, each player has its own preferences.

The SSS002 and 005 has not been in my real life comparison list yet. Maybe I can get Rootz for a shootout: my 002 and his 005.
The SSS on a ODS size chassis? I would advise against it. The big chassis is already crowded and I know for a fact that my SSS pcb design wont fit a ODS size chassis.

Erwin