Copper Clad FR4 for Printed Circuit Board Creation

[ic-racer]

Has anyone used the 'laser printer transfer' method to etch their own PC boards for the power supply and such? I was looking into it and wondered if the Copper Clad FR4 I see on the internet is the right stuff. Some descriptions call it 'translucent' and 'yellow green' this would seem to be fitting with some of the Dumble innards pictures I have seen.

The traces on the Dumble Precision power supply board are pretty wide and I also wondered if that would cause a problem with getting a good 'etch resist' in those large areas after the laser ink transfer.

Has anyone tried this, is it a big deal. From what I have seen, it looks not too difficult.

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/634/2099.pdf

[blue_dog]

Has anyone used the 'laser printer transfer' method to etch their own PC boards for the power supply and such? I was looking into it and wondered if the Copper Clad FR4 I see on the internet is the right stuff. Some descriptions call it 'translucent' and 'yellow green' this would seem to be fitting with some of the Dumble innards pictures I have seen.

The traces on the Dumble Precision power supply board are pretty wide and I also wondered if that would cause a problem with getting a good 'etch resist' in those large areas after the laser ink transfer.

Has anyone tried this, is it a big deal. From what I have seen, it looks not too difficult.

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/634/2099.pdf

I've used a similar copper clad FR4 board with that method to make the relay boards. It's very simple but requires some patience. The only thing is it doesn't come in 1/8". As for wide etches I've had no problems, you just need a clean board and some time to work the laser ink to make clean lines. You can go over them with a sharpie pen if any spots are missing. A single clad sided board will also cut the etching time.

[Funkalicousgroove]

I've used toner transfer, it works great!! you actually have to use the Green TRF, then I go 1 further and go over that with a paint pen to make sure it's sealed.

Do you want some Copper boards? I have a ton left over from when I used to sell the "Etch your own" board sets. They are just taking up space- you can have them for the cost of the postage

[glasman]

I agree, I prototype boards all the time using the Pulsar toner transfer method. Works great. I actually never use the green transfer film (I have it here, but it is a major pain).

Just set your printer to maximum DPI, make sure the board is CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN and 5 minutes with the wifes iron and I am business.

Here is a picture from one I did this week (sorry I did not take a picture of the copper side). From design to mounting parts about 1 hour.

[glasman]

And yes FR4 is exactly what you want.

Want BIG sheets. McMasters has them and pretty cheap as well.

Gary

[ic-racer]

So far all that has been posted seems favorable. Now the next question...does anyone have files showing the traces, or approximations, on the various PC boards? This would obviously save me hours 're-inventing' the wheel.

I am going under the assumption that none of the vendors on this forum currently offers an authentic-looking PC board set, right?

[benoit]

I agree, I prototype boards all the time using the Pulsar toner transfer method. Works great. I actually never use the green transfer film (I have it here, but it is a major pain).

Just set your printer to maximum DPI, make sure the board is CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN and 5 minutes with the wifes iron and I am business.

Here is a picture from one I did this week (sorry I did not take a picture of the copper side). From design to mounting parts about 1 hour.

What's that in your pic? Is it some sort of pedal power supply (or whatever else you'd use a bunch of dc jacks for)?

[glasman]

I agree, I prototype boards all the time using the Pulsar toner transfer method. Works great. I actually never use the green transfer film (I have it here, but it is a major pain).

Just set your printer to maximum DPI, make sure the board is CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN and 5 minutes with the wifes iron and I am business.

Here is a picture from one I did this week (sorry I did not take a picture of the copper side). From design to mounting parts about 1 hour.

What's that in your pic? Is it some sort of pedal power supply (or whatever else you'd use a bunch of dc jacks for)?

Yes, it is a pedal supply for my kids pedal board. It has 6 9V regulated supplies and 1 18 supply. Each tap has two connections. It also has one non-regulated supply for the power LED.

The transformer is from Ted Weber.

Gary

[kleinm]

I use FR4 boards all the time. Great stuff, very sturdy as well. After its etched, its a pretty greenish color. I get it from Small Bear.

I just use cheap Kodak inkjet photo paper (lowest quality and weight), and print the PCB using a laserjet printer. Then, I iron on the layout for about 4-5 minutes. Soak it in water, and the paper just wipes away, and you're left with the ink transfered directly to the copper. Sometimes you have to gently scrub the paper off the ink with a Scotch Brite pad.

I've done this on about 30 boards, and haven't had to scrap a single one. It eliminates the need for expensive toner transfer sheets like Press 'n' Peel Blue, and I rarely have to touch spots up with a Etch Resist pen.

I believe I still have a PCB layout for the Dumble-ator power supply, voltage doubler and all. If there is interest, and its okay with everyone, I'll post it. If there's interest in the Precision Power Supply, and it too is okay with everyone, I can make a layout for that as well.

[benoit]

I use FR4 boards all the time. Great stuff, very sturdy as well. After its etched, its a pretty greenish color. I get it from Small Bear.

I just use cheap Kodak inkjet photo paper (lowest quality and weight), and print the PCB using a laserjet printer. Then, I iron on the layout for about 4-5 minutes. Soak it in water, and the paper just wipes away, and you're left with the ink transfered directly to the copper. Sometimes you have to gently scrub the paper off the ink with a Scotch Brite pad.

I've done this on about 30 boards, and haven't had to scrap a single one. It eliminates the need for expensive toner transfer sheets like Press 'n' Peel Blue, and I rarely have to touch spots up with a Etch Resist pen.

I believe I still have a PCB layout for the Dumble-ator power supply, voltage doubler and all. If there is interest, and its okay with everyone, I'll post it. If there's interest in the Precision Power Supply, and it too is okay with everyone, I can make a layout for that as well.

My less than awesome experience with eyelet only relay boards has had me thinking about this. Questions

1. How do you secure the paper to the board while ironing?
2. After you've ironed on the ink do you just drop it in a dub of something? (if so, what exactly, and how long does it need to sit, etc)
3. What next?
4. Do you need to drill holes from the side with traces or does it matter?

I'm definitely interested in some info on how to do the various pcbs in a d-style amp.

[Deric]

I've etched a lot of boards using PnP Blue. I know lots of people have had good luck with photo paper but I used PnP blue the first time and it worked perfectly so I've never strayed....

Never had a problem with wide traces, in fact, the wider the easier. I generally use ferric chloride to etch. If you float the board up-side down in an 1/8th inch deep tub of warm ferric chloride it etches in about 15min. Unfortunately, ferric chloride is getting harder to find - Rat Shack don't carry it no more.

[kleinm]

My less than awesome experience with eyelet only relay boards has had me thinking about this. Questions

1. How do you secure the paper to the board while ironing?
2. After you've ironed on the ink do you just drop it in a dub of something? (if so, what exactly, and how long does it need to sit, etc)
3. What next?
4. Do you need to drill holes from the side with traces or does it matter?

I'm definitely interested in some info on how to do the various pcbs in a d-style amp.

1) The heat from the iron (NO STEAM!!!!) fastens the ink to the board pretty quickly. I usually do about 45 seconds of strong pressure directly downward. You have to press down pretty hard the entire time.

2) Yep, just a bowl of water. After about a minute, I rub the paper with my thumb to wipe stuff off. Then I let it set for another minute, rub, repeat, etc. Usually, it takes about 5 minutes before the paper loosely falls off.

3) Then, I take a worn Scotch Bright pad and gently rub the remaining paper off. under warm water. If you scrub too hard, I suppose you could cut through the ink, which would spell trouble for a thin trace.

3a) Once you see the solid black ink on your pretty board, then set it in a tub with ferric chloride or sodium persulfate. As Deric mentioned, FeCl is a rare commodity anymore . If its warm, the FeCl will work quickly. Heat lamps work well, but I'm never in a rush as waiting for it to etch is a great excuse for a beer or scotch.

3b) After its etched, I scrub off the ink with a dull Scotch Bright pad and some Etch Resist Solvent (nail polish remover works too).

4) Its easiest to drill holes from the side with the copper, as I put a little bare hole for each pad. My drill sets in that hole nicely and gives it a place to stay while I start the hole. The board wears out bits QUICKLY.

[ampdork]

I have PCB designs for all the auxiliary boards. I think the main power supply I have needs to be resized and therefore perhaps laid out again. In any event I will gather them up and post them when I can for all to use. I may opt to keep the actual eagle cad files but at the least I will post the artwork which is easily used for toner transfer or even just as a guide to drawing your own. The common etching stuff (ferric chloride) works ok especially with heat but is murky brown and difficult to see when the boards is etched and ready to pull.
Ammonium persulfate works very well and is clear and imo makes for cleaner traces. ymmv.
http://www.technick.net/public/code/cp_ ... persulfate

Will get the boards posted as time allows unless someone beats me to it.

+1 on the use of kodak paper. I save the pnp blue for projects with lots of fine traces and tiny pads.

[ic-racer]

If you would post or PM these that would be fantastic! When I get around to making the boards, I'll post pics of the process for other first-timers.

benoit- check out these links on making the boards, maybe you might want to do your auxiliary boards like this also (especially if we can get files of the boards!)


http://www.pacificsun.ca/~robert/pcb/pcb.htm
http://www.5bears.com/pcb.htm
http://www.hcarc.us/articles/Easy%20Pri ... cation.htm
http://advtheremin.blogspot.com/2005/10 ... n-101.html
http://www.awrr.com/pcb.html

[Deric]

A couple more..

http://tonepad.com/photoessay.asp?photo ... quenceNo=1
http://tonepad.com/photoessay.asp?photo ... quenceNo=1