Vintage Transformer Identification

[bradicusmaximus]

Howdy everyone! This is my first post, but I have lurked and read and followed many of the discussions around here for quite a while. I know there's an incredible wealth of knowledge, so I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this...

I had a client that brought in a 1960 tweed princeton for some work. There was a long list of things to do, but one of the concerns he had was that the output transformer might be bad. I did my usual visual inspection and photo documentation (I'm a bit anal about some things) and I noticed that the wire seemed a little odd and not what I was expecting. When I removed the chassis from the cabinet, the output transformer just didn't quite look right to me.

I'm not a vintage Fender expert so I don't know it on sight, but it seemed just kind of wrong. Age-wise, it looks appropriate, for dust, grime, patina and all the other good stuff the lurks in the mojo layer.

Any chance anyone can help me 1) determine if this is original or if not, 2) pedigree the OT. There are no numbers, markings, or anything else visible. If it's not stock, was this a factory replacement or something else.

I'm leaning towards it not being original, but before I break my client's heart on his vintage amp, I really want a second opinion ... or third, etc.

Thanks

Brad

[ToneMerc]

I'm no expert on all things Fender, but I can't recall any Fender amp, especially "Tweedish" that used a tagboard output transformer. The tag board terminations are usually found on some of the Euro amp brands.

TM

[bradicusmaximus]

Thanks - That was kind of what I was thinking, but again, I didn't want to jump to a conclusion without at least some backup on it.

[Stevem]

Number (1)Fender would never ground the secondary side of the OT like that my friend!
(2) All small fender OTs had and have the leads coming out the bottom and the whole OT is cased in metal.

[ToneMerc]

Number (1)Fender would never ground the secondary side of the OT like that my friend!
(2) All small fender OTs had and have the leads coming out the bottom and the whole OT is cased in metal.

Steve, Fender would beg to differ as your statements contradicts it's practices.

Here's pics of 58 & 59 Tweed's; a Champ, Deluxe and Tremolux and all have the secondary side grounded to the frame of the OT transfomer and obviously they are open frame as well.

TM

[overtone]

It looks like a typical European OT.
Such OTs with exposed tag-boards mounted externally always give me the willies. If you leave it in please find some permanent way of making it impossible to get a shock.
tony

[bradicusmaximus]

It looks like a typical European OT.
Such OTs with exposed tag-boards mounted externally always give me the willies. If you leave it in please find some permanent way of making it impossible to get a shock.
tony

Thanks. Considering the consensus seems to be this is not original, I'm going to let the client decide, but I'll be pushing him towards getting something a bit closer to original. He is looking to have it as close to stock as possible.

[ToneMerc]

It looks like a typical European OT.
Such OTs with exposed tag-boards mounted externally always give me the willies. If you leave it in please find some permanent way of making it impossible to get a shock.
tony

Thanks. Considering the consensus seems to be this is not original, I'm going to let the client decide, but I'll be pushing him towards getting something a bit closer to original. He is looking to have it as close to stock as possible.

An early 1960 Princeton with a transition output transformer could have had the Triad 107, which is like the 106 I posted above only bigger, the Triad had an 3.2 ohm output. A straight 1960 most likely will have the 125A2A; which was made by Schumacher and is an open frame style as well, but does not have the "self lead" ground termination on the frame.

You could contact Mercury Magnetics, they make a 1960 Tweed Princeton output transformer, my guess is that its a clone of a 125A2A.

TM

[boots]

The soldering doesn't look like it was done in the Fender factory....

[bradicusmaximus]

It looks like a typical European OT.
Such OTs with exposed tag-boards mounted externally always give me the willies. If you leave it in please find some permanent way of making it impossible to get a shock.
tony

Thanks. Considering the consensus seems to be this is not original, I'm going to let the client decide, but I'll be pushing him towards getting something a bit closer to original. He is looking to have it as close to stock as possible.

An early 1960 Princeton with a transition output transformer could have had the Triad 107, which is like the 106 I posted above only bigger, the Triad had an 3.2 ohm output. A straight 1960 most likely will have the 125A2A; which was made by Schumacher and is an open frame style as well, but does not have the "self lead" ground termination on the frame.

You could contact Mercury Magnetics, they make a 1960 Tweed Princeton output transformer, my guess is that its a clone of a 125A2A.

TM

Happily, my client decided he wants to just replace that one with a new correct one. Of course, he wants to keep an eye out for a vintage correct one to try and put the amp somewhat back to original. The rest of the date codes on the amp are in the last few weeks of 1959, although the speaker is dated 1957. So if any of you guys have a 1959 - 1960 5 watt single-ended output transformer for a fender tweed you want to part with, let me know. lol

[ToneMerc]

Thanks. Considering the consensus seems to be this is not original, I'm going to let the client decide, but I'll be pushing him towards getting something a bit closer to original. He is looking to have it as close to stock as possible.

An early 1960 Princeton with a transition output transformer could have had the Triad 107, which is like the 106 I posted above only bigger, the Triad had an 3.2 ohm output. A straight 1960 most likely will have the 125A2A; which was made by Schumacher and is an open frame style as well, but does not have the "self lead" ground termination on the frame.

You could contact Mercury Magnetics, they make a 1960 Tweed Princeton output transformer, my guess is that its a clone of a 125A2A.

TM

Happily, my client decided he wants to just replace that one with a new correct one. Of course, he wants to keep an eye out for a vintage correct one to try and put the amp somewhat back to original. The rest of the date codes on the amp are in the last few weeks of 1959, although the speaker is dated 1957. So if any of you guys have a 1959 - 1960 5 watt single-ended output transformer for a fender tweed you want to part with, let me know. lol

A vintage Triad 107 or 125A2A would be rare as hen's teeth. Too bad it's not a push/pull circuit, MCI makes an actual self leaded Triad 108 clone for around $32. Other than Mercury I'm not aware of anyone that offers an off the shelf correct version. When you do see the open frame SE OT, its the smaller Champ version (Triad 106) not the slightly larger 107 type.

TM