Developing the DIY "Champ" for first time builders

[M Fowler]

Octal preamp tubes

Here are some possibilities.

[surfsup]

My apologies again. I had discussed interest in one of the "premium" kits RJ was putting together vial email already so I have an interest as well.

I was momentarily confused by tonemerc's posted photos and schematics that didn't match and it kinda went from there with my questions trying to understand the circuit and layout (I still don't "see" the circuit looking at a bunch of components on a board, but its getting better).

I did put a BOM xls together based on the ceriatone's layout if anyone is interested or wants to upload it here I can provide it. I think it's right...

[RJ Guitars]

My apologies again...

No harm no worries... Any thread can get pretty dynamic, especially if we are waiting around for parts to show up. If they didn't we'd all end up with identical amp clones... what kind of dull world would that be??

The original thread was intended to establish the base line although I was really expecting options to evolve, usually happens that way. The premium version of the simplest Champ is the first evolution so I'm as guilty of derailing my own thread as anyone else.

We should think about Zippy's idea of having no knobs though, that is really the bare bones version. Learning to use the volume and tone knob on the guitar is a great skill to develop, especially if you are having thoughts about building a trainwreck amp.

rj

PS - Zippy asking for less knobs is not something I am used to?

[M Fowler]

Yes no worries we always have fun like this.

Surfsup by the end of 2011 your going to be a seasoned amp builder if you follow along.

Don't hesitate to post questions.

The colletive forum grows that way and a great way to learn, gaining experience, as we go.

I know for a fact these people enjoy helping.

Mark

[M Fowler]

Here is a Fender Bronco amp as well has vibrato though.

[selloutrr]

vintage bronco amps are selling for $150 on craigslist
Vibrochamps $450... less as they get newer $150 for an 80's model

[Zippy]

PS - Zippy asking for less knobs is not something I am used to?

Hey! You wanna stay in Cleveland for another month?!

Regarding knobs: It's all or nothing... all or nothing...

I don't need a power light either - I'll know if it's on.

[telentubes]

Did we decide that this rig will need a 12" speaker to sound good? Or is there a 10" that someone would recommend that might do the trick. It would be nice to have a compact, great sounding little combo to pack around for quieter settings. Does anyone have experience with the 10" Greenback or any of the Weber 10s?

[Firestorm]

Weber's alnico Signature 8S sounds great in these things. If you want to go 10", I'll bet the 10S is similar.

[xtian]

Weber's alnico Signature 8S sounds great in these things. If you want to go 10", I'll bet the 10S is similar.

I played this Weber 8" in my Champ clone, and thought it sounded like poop. But here's where I'm coming from: 25 years of playing 12" speakers. If you're like me, you probably won't like any 8" speaker!

On the other hand, I love my 10" Eminence Swamp Things. Darker than usual, but super nice.

[Firestorm]

Ha! Yeah, I was thinking more of how they're "supposed" to sound rather than how they would if we played them through the sound system at the local IMAX theater.

Champs do sound very cool through 2 x 12s and even 4 x 12s, but they don't sound like Champs anymore.

[rp]

I'd think RJ is building this as a head layout, and I don't think he intends to carry a speaker(s) for it, still, we can always digress and add our suggestions for future builders. In this regard people should wait till reports come in on what the final amp sounds like, whether it's voiced dark or bright - or just right.

But since I can't ignore a 5F1 discussion I will add to this

Champs do sound very cool through 2 x 12s and even 4 x 12s, but they don't sound like Champs anymore.

I built my 5F1 as a combo for an 8" from scratch 'cause I was thinking like firestorm. I believe my clone sounds pretty close to the real thing but I've not been able to find an 8 to make it sound good, and I've tried 4. Best is a blue pup, but still dark (can't fit a 8F125) and I've wasted enough scratch on useless 8s to buy a used Celestion Blue. On the other hand I've tried several 10s and it sounded great through all, and there are so many more to try, and having extra 10s around isn't as annoying as extra 8s. RJs amp is using "incorrect" iron and tubes anyway so it's not going to be that authentic. So, I know you can loose w/an 8, I think you can't loose with a 10 or 12 - though I think 12 is maybe overkill. From my experience I would suggest to a newbie to just start with an efficient ceramic 10. Maybe Emi Legend 105 for $50 or that cheap MOD 10? RJ might wanna test it with them so he can offer a recommendations to his newbies.

BTW I don't think Leo put an 8 in the champ cause he thought it was perfect that way, I think he was just trying to have a complete line for his retailers to carry without any overlap.

I am curious though, anyone know if Page, Clapton, Beck, Allman... recorded their champs through the original 8s?

[RJ Guitars]

I'd think RJ is building this as a head layout, and I don't think he intends to carry a speaker(s) for it...

RJs amp is using "incorrect" iron and tubes anyway so it's not going to be that authentic...

I have ordered a half dozen head cabinets and another half dozen combo cabinets with a hole for a 10" speaker. If I sell them with this project that's cool, but if I don't I'll use them elsewhere.

I have a mix of requests for tubes up and tube hanger style head layouts, so I'm planning on a few of each. The heads can be either orientation and the combos will all be tube hangers since that is the easy way to do that. I don't carry any speakers but encourage the discussion. As I mentioned before, I get the enjoyment out of building amps but not so much in cloning them. There are a lot of folks with good ideas and want to encourage everyone to add their own flavor.

My amps are definitely "incorrect iron" and nothing else really is exactly like the original Fender either. I like the simple schematic and the opportunity to help folks put together a cool but inexpensive amp but nothing about my way of doing it is sacred so allow yourself to explore.

I am looking at the week of March 21 for starting the shipping... I will be on travel until about that time. I appreciate your patience in the meantime... hopefully the edcor trannies will be here by the time I return.

rj

[M Fowler]

rj I am going for your combo cabinet and amp kit let me know bud.

Mark

[Firestorm]

I built my 5F1 as a combo for an 8" from scratch 'cause I was thinking like firestorm. I believe my clone sounds pretty close to the real thing but I've not been able to find an 8 to make it sound good, and I've tried 4. Best is a blue pup, but still dark (can't fit a 8F125) and I've wasted enough scratch on useless 8s to buy a used Celestion Blue. On the other hand I've tried several 10s and it sounded great through all, and there are so many more to try, and having extra 10s around isn't as annoying as extra 8s.

BTW I don't think Leo put an 8 in the champ cause he thought it was perfect that way, I think he was just trying to have a complete line for his retailers to carry without any overlap.

I am curious though, anyone know if Page, Clapton, Beck, Allman... recorded their champs through the original 8s?

Thanks for the report on your experience with 10s. That is good to know. When Leo and Doc started building these, it was the only amp they built, so I bet the thought process was exactly the same as rj's: "What is the least expensive way to make an amp?" Results will be interesting. As to Page, Clapton, Allman, Gibbons, etc.: I'll bet some of that work was recorded with pre-1957 Champs, hence 6s. You don't care about the bass response so just turn it to 12 and close mike it. The engineers probably remembered what mike they used, but took no notice of the amp. Heck, nobody even remembers what model Bluesbreaker Clapton used with Mayall!