I had to do it.

[Andy Le Blanc]

This season has really picked up for me, I'm involved as a sound tech at
three venues four nights a week and am preparing to take over the position
full time in the middle of oct. , running sound for groups in the traditional/Celtic
circuit in northern new england. Its folk , bluegrass, PEI, Cape Breton and Irish fiddle.

At a side gig a couple days back I had to tell the guitar player to pull his head
out of his arse and turn down. I had to do it, primadonna. Whine all you like.

Do all current production amps suck as bad as fender, I've been making
tube rigs for a couple decades and have never had such a vantage to contrast
tone from. My job is to provide consistent professional sound, no matter what
the style, band , venue.....

Anyway..... I had to do it..... listen to your sound guy's, we can, and are very capable
of letting you suck, all on your own.

[drhulsey]

Sound like a great gig, Andy Congratulations
I've always maintained that the worst thing about performing on stage is that you have no idea what it sounds like out front
It's like a pilot getting disoriented in the clouds. You can't rely on your own senses. You have to rely on your sound guy to guide you

[Andy Le Blanc]

I appreciate the positive comment. The whole gig was accidentally on purpose.
I had no idea there was a paying venue in the area and in this economy.
The artists come in various states of professional experience. This weeks
was the most challenging, because they were amateur. No clue about sound
reinforcement, scared of they're monitors, crap and inconsistent mic technique.
Some will come through and tell you exactingly which freq is bugging them
in they're mix.

Individual monitor mixes are a trip to some players, "wow, I can hear myself"
Then they back off the mic and try to pretend their getting the right feel,
mess the rest of the band up for levels, and force the board operator into
baby sitting.

For guitar you only need something like a princeton , low watts nice break up.

and dont worry about the board mix or front of house, if the tech operating
the board cant resolve your issues in a timely and effective fashion, he is
responsible to the promoter and or, the venue owner

Id like a little more talent in the monitors please. Why don't you try pushing
the suck cut button while your at it.

Its a job.............

[Structo]

When I used to run sound I took the responsibility very seriously.

After all, you are the guy between the band and the audience.

It doesn't matter how good the musicians are if the mix sounds like crap.

A few years back when I played electric guitar for our church group, I had trained a guy to run sound for us.
We played very contemporary music and liked to rock out quite a bit during worship.

The way the stage was set up I couldn't really hear the FOH speakers at all so I had to rely on my wedge monitor.
We used a nice 24 channel Mackie board but it did not have EQ on the monitor mixes so it was a bit of guess work how good you sounded out front.

Well this guy apparently didn't like electric guitar very much because I had several people come up to me and ask if there was something wrong with my guitar.
I said no, I didn't think so.

Apparently this new sound guy had me turned so low that I was not being heard.
Kind of strange is he was only about 25 years old so I figured he would dig the job and use good dynamics as I had taught him.

He was not paying attention to who had the lead instrument during the songs so he wouldn't boost the proper persons volume.
I think he was just about asleep at the wheel most times.

He was replaced by the next week.

[Andy Le Blanc]

It is a serious job.... the guy who's lining me out has thirty some years on it.
You really do need to be on your toes. The best nights are the third night
with the same act, set up is a breeze because you finally have a stage plot,
and you know whats coming for solo instrumentation, mid tune instrument changes, etc...
everybody knows the monitors and the dynamics are balanced.

Sound check is more a matter of expediting the subjects on the stage thru
the process to a point of resolution.

[CaseyJones]

CBGB "back in the day" is my point of reference. I'm gonna get a jailhouse tattoo, a single teardrop in memory of that place. No, it don't mean I offed someone in the slammer!

Four acts per night minimum. Get 'em off, get 'em on, get 'em out! Acts that were unintelligible by nature were suddenly heard, imagine that!

Country, BlueGrass & Blues. Guess they gave up on the country and bluegrass pretty quick, huh? I did see some pretty good blues acts in there once in a great while.

A mandolin with a pickup can feed back like Hendrix.

[Andy Le Blanc]

CBGB "back in the day"....... I know a keyboard player, his story includes
opening night....... I guess they had him play the last night, freakey, all the names that have been through that place.

Four acts per night minimum....... holy cow...... how fast was the turn over?

The guy up here at the widowmaker lounge, sugarloaf, said he'd got it down to less than 15min. between acts.

I'll be a pest and see if I can get a group name from the keyboard guy....
It's fun when its a small world.

Didn't someone pay a lot of $$$ for the bathroom walls.... hard rock cafe?

[drhulsey]

It is a serious job...

I always considered the mixer another instrument in the band– the most complicated A good sound guy is an artist. Just like those of us on stage, he has to be listening all the time, anticipating. Busy tweaking in the first set– more relaxed thereafter, but still on his toes. I only have to worry about my part. The sound guy has to worry about ALL of them.
I always considered sound check in an empty venue a time to tweak the drum and bass sounds and make sure everything worked. The real sound check was the first set with the place packed with patrons.
Some musicians only seem to worry that they are heard. They don't worry about the QUALITY or the mix. If they made recorded music that way, no one would buy it

[CaseyJones]

Four acts per night minimum....... holy cow...... how fast was the turn over?

Fast. As fast as they could get one act off the stage they'd poke the mics at another one and off they'd go. At least that's the way I remember it.

None of this BS where the band is out by the dumpster for 45 minutes between sets...

Didn't someone pay a lot of $$$ for the bathroom walls.... hard rock cafe?

They'd have to settle for the bathroom walls... 'cuz there were no doors! No toilet seats, either.

Pay money for those walls? They shoulda cremated 'em! Man, you'd get cooties jus' lookin' at 'em!

[Structo]

It is a serious job...

I always considered the mixer another instrument in the band– the most complicated A good sound guy is an artist. Just like those of us on stage, he has to be listening all the time, anticipating. Busy tweaking in the first set– more relaxed thereafter, but still on his toes. I only have to worry about my part. The sound guy has to worry about ALL of them.
I always considered sound check in an empty venue a time to tweak the drum and bass sounds and make sure everything worked. The real sound check was the first set with the place packed with patrons.
Some musicians only seem to worry that they are heard. They don't worry about the QUALITY or the mix. If they made recorded music that way, no one would buy it

Good point Doc.
And right on the mark.

A room sounds completely different between empty and full of bodies.
I noticed this big time when I ran sound.

I would get the mix balance pretty close and then tweak the EQ more once the room was full of bodies.
Especially if it is a big hard floored empty room with no acoustic treatments at all.
We used a gymnasium for years as a sanctuary.
Concrete flooring with linoleum tiles.
It was just that, a big empty room that we set up metal folding chairs.
I finally talked the pastor into letting me hang some large pieces of fabric from the open steel joists that were overhead.
I put these at about 10-15 foot intervals going back to the back wall.
That killed a lot of the bounce I was getting and also helped with standing wave type problems.

At church we constantly battled with people that said the music was too loud!
Those same people could be seen chatting with their neighbor during worship....
So a lot of the times I would act like I was turning a knob or two when they asked me and that would satisfy them.

I had a keyboardist that was always having me adjust her monitor volume.
Several times during rehearsal, then a few more during the set.

I finally figured out that the initial setting was the proper one for her.
So later when she gave me the thumbs up or thumbs down for her volume, I would reach up and act like it was twisting knobs and she would be satisfied with the setting.
Didn't move a thing!
I think it was just psychological and nerves on her part.
Once she got going it went pretty smoothly.

I also had to fight continuously about stage volume.
I had to tell the musicians that the monitors were not to be used for the main speakers!
If I granted every one's request for monitor volume tweaks during rehearsal it would be so loud by the end that I could just shut off the mains!

What I found and this is probably common knowledge is that the louder your stage is, the muddier the tone from the mains is.
It just screws up everything, probably from phasing issues and time delays.

Sometimes I would shut down the mains and let them hear how loud their monitors actually were.

Yep, the lowly sound guy, love'em or hate'em, they are in control.
So don't piss them off or you get muted.

The problem is finding a good one.
They must have a good ear for music otherwise it is a losing battle.
I find that if they are good musicians, it helps a lot because they can separate the different instruments in their head and be more critical of the overall mix, making it enjoyable for everybody in attendance.

[Wayne]

The "fake slider" bit is a classic - I do it at least once at every gig! I do our band's sound from the stage for smaller gigs, with the help of a wireless and multiple trips back and forth during setup/rough-in. A lot of smaller rooms are unplayable until they get 30 or so people in them. If a "too loud" complaint comes, esp. in the first half hour, I very purposefully consult the board, put my finger down next to the FOH slider and draw it back towards me (actually, any slider will do!), and tell the complainer to let me know after the next song if it's still too loud. Most of the time, they've toodled off to get a drink or chat with a girl by then

W

[Bob-I]

In the 80's I did a single primarally in resturants, dinner set, dance set, set to an empty bar, home.

I used to go up, say "test 1 2 3" and then lean over to the closest table and say loudly "Is that too loud"... yes, fake slider trick, "is that better? yes

Today I work a corporate job and play on the weekends. We have a soundman who works as a member of the band. Yes, I listen when he says turn down, but lately he says turn up more often. Everything sounds better with the guitar turned down. 50 watt Dumble clone on #2 is plenty of stage volume, and a decent PA/soundman will make it sound great.

Last night the soundman had a recording gig run overtime. Panic sets in. He sent a replacement, pics of the soundboard from the venue the last time we were there. Came off perfect, the replacement said he never did a gig where he didn't tell the band to turn down at least once.

Bottom line, do your best, if the band doesn't listen their performance suffers.

[Andy Le Blanc]

Venue sound for traditional artists is about the same as any thing else.
You have to be consistent, and you never know what the act will toss at you.
If the act has over the road experience, and enough confidence, it becomes
a real pleasurable experience, everybody plays their role and the night goes
well. If the act hasn't found their comfort zone on stage then it can be a
tug-o-war, with the sound guy's struggling to be consistent with performers
who are in a foreign setting, afraid of their monitors and reluctant to use the
stage volume to their own benefit.

last night was an open mic in a crap room, but we had a drive rack, OOH LA LA.
We pinked to -7Db and used the feedback filters, no problems.

Tonight's off, then tues is a bose instillation and a studiomaster GB8, wed.
is a behriger board, carvin three way w/15's, thurs is a peavey monitor board
with QSC horns and subs, nice midrange there, I do wish for a board with
two sweepable mids there, its tuff to have only partial control with horns.

[Wayne]

Pics of the soundboard...

SMACK!

Why didn't I think of that?

W

[Andy Le Blanc]

The board should be zeroed, set up happens as the sound check proceeds.
If the the operator knows or remembers the general preferences of the venue
or the artist then things speed along. Its the sound check that you have to get good at.

Pictures won't help you there.

You got less than a minute to set gain and cursory tone set, mains,
but the priority is the monitors and individual monitor mix.
You find the time to fine tune mids, house mix later though out the check.
When your sound check procedure is refined, thats where the sound guy gets to shine.
The gear and shear number of knobs scares people, but it really comes down
to a set number of tasks performed through the sound check.
And the ability to guide the proceeding, respecting the performers needs.
After that its baby sitting, to maintain a consistent live mix. Or.... You can
decide to take a more active role and push performance aspects of the
players, some times a tour manager will want to take that roll until he finds that
he can actually trust your judgments at the particular venue.