New Sozo caps

[chief mushroom cloud]

On this amp, I went all boo-teeky, and used 10 different types of caps (and at least 5 different types of resistors), in all the proper boo-teeky places, and I can't hear any difference from the same amp built with generic film caps from eBay and all MF resistors.

+1,000,000
a flick of the tone controls and all that ooga booga vanishes...just like it wuz never there (and it wuznt)

[tictac]

a really beautiful build! I like using the Solens too; not because they sound better but they'll never need replacing. Other than that expensive doesn't mean better sounding for sure...

I can hear the difference between CC and MF resistors, and between certain types of caps. In fact I think the cap resistor combination is important too...

It's really about the total package: chassis, tubes, wire, parts, layout, iron, and speakers; how they work together...

Some guys can build like Picasso could paint.... I'm grateful to get a paint by numbers amp going!

TT[/quote]

[Mark]

Any more news on the new Sozo caps.

[talbany]

The problem with these tests that are done by the HiFi test monkeys is they think rather opposite..We guitar players welcome large amounts of distortion and more harmonic content,where the Hifi designers are striving for an amplifier with low distortion.. Different type capicators will generate or have resonant peaks and harmonic distortion characteristics..This is especially true with ceramics that have poor temp stability,and can change drastically when heated (as in a tubes down type config)..Some people say if they want a little hair in there tone or a tone that is less strident (like a silver mica or polystyrene) they will use a ceramic cap when what they are really hearing is the 3rd 5th and 7th (odd order harmonics)..This IMO opinion is a big part of the Marshall (grind) type tone many players like!!

I'll "quote" Aiken
"Ceramic capacitors should be avoided, as they are usually horribly microphonic, have very high odd-order harmonic distortion (the "bad, or harsh-sounding" kind), typically mostly 3rd and 5th and 7th harmonics, and have poor temperature stability. If ceramics must be used, the COG/NPO type has the best temperature stability and much, much lower harmonic distortion - stay away from X7R and Z5U types, and ceramic disk capacitors, in particular"...

So YES certain capacitors can effect TONE!!

BTW..The Big issue I have with Sozo's is they say they need time to break in before they smooth out..(whatever this means) Really I am going to pay that much for a signal cap and have to break it in...For someone who is manufacturing guitar amps...This cap is useless to me!

http://www.sozocapacitors.com/break_in.html

Tony

[Structo]

Are the pink resistors Takman's?

[Roe]

The problem with these tests that are done by the HiFi test monkeys is they think rather opposite..We guitar players welcome large amounts of distortion and more harmonic content,where the Hifi designers are striving for an amplifier with low distortion.. Different type capicators will generate or have resonant peaks and harmonic distortion characteristics..This is especially true with ceramics that have poor temp stability,and can change drastically when heated (as in a tubes down type config)..Some people say if they want a little hair in there tone or a tone that is less strident (like a silver mica or polystyrene) they will use a ceramic cap when what they are really hearing is the 3rd 5th and 7th (odd order harmonics)..This IMO opinion is a big part of the Marshall (grind) type tone many players like!!

I'll "quote" Aiken
"Ceramic capacitors should be avoided... have very high odd-order harmonic distortion (the "bad, or harsh-sounding" kind), typically mostly 3rd and 5th and 7th harmonics, ...
So YES certain capacitors can effect TONE!!



Tony

that's pretty much the reason why I use ceramics caps in the tone stack and as bright caps in most of my amps (except a few fenders)

[rp]

IMHO I will always use Sozos in Marshall builds as they are a sure thing. They just sound right in the circuit.

Which ones did you use? Don't (didn't) they make two mustards - standard and extra fancy? I checked their site but seems not anymore?

I can't hear any difference from the same amp built with generic film caps from eBay and all MF resistors.

So you could hear no difference even btwn the film filters and electrolytics? Most interesting. I really want to test this myself, wish my 5E3 was on a board and not PTP w/ a can. I'd be willing to layout for 3 Solens at 18mF just for a test, it'd be worth $40.

[Structo]

How many of you guys buy into the break in aspect of film capacitors?

Such as what Sozo says as much as 100 hours.

http://www.sozocapacitors.com/break_in.html

[Colossal]

How many of you guys buy into the break in aspect of film capacitors?

Speaking specifically to Sozo capacitors, there is definitely a break-in period. I'm not into the whole mojo aspect but I do hear the difference between different dielectrics. I have not used the latest revision of Sozos yet, but the standard and hand-wound Vintage series do have a break-in period. I notice a shift from a more high-treble dominant, flatter tone to a very three dimensional more mid-rich sound as the hours go by. The amp opens up, so to speak.

[Scumback Speakers]

How many of you guys buy into the break in aspect of film capacitors?

Speaking specifically to Sozo capacitors, there is definitely a break-in period. I'm not into the whole mojo aspect but I do hear the difference between different dielectrics. I have not used the latest revision of Sozos yet, but the standard and hand-wound Vintage series do have a break-in period. I notice a shift from a more high-treble dominant, flatter tone to a very three dimensional more mid-rich sound as the hours go by. The amp opens up, so to speak.

The above is exactly what I found out as well.

I'm not going to get into the Mallory/SoZo/Mullard Mustard cap debate. I did something a little more scientific...

I had my amp tech build three 50w 1987 Marshall clones. All use the same trannies, boards, solder, wire, resistors, blah, blah, blah...except for the signal caps.

One has original Mullard Mustard caps, one has the new (2014) SoZo caps, one has the older SoZo Vintage (2008 era) caps. I just got the latest 50w in a few days ago and haven't put it through it's paces, but I should get to that soon (lots of orders to build, pack & ship).

Oh...and I have an older 50w 1987 with Mallory caps in it (circa 2007/2008), with the same components other than the signal caps as well.

I'll flog all four through a 4x12 and report back later this week.

[rp]

I'll flog all four through a 4x12 and report back later this week.

Will be waiting with bated breath.

I'm sure the poobahs here are well aware of this but I'll ask anyway, with a new build how do you know it's the coupling caps you are hearing and not just (or mostly) the filter caps breaking in? Filters I know I hear breaking in, as I've replaced just those in many amps not just my clones, but I never shotgunned just the coupling caps so can't say. I've changed one/two here and there but never bothered to try and listen critically for anything.

[Scumback Speakers]

Excellent question, rp. How I know the signal caps make a difference is easy. I had two of my 100w clones built at the same time. Same setup (SoZo Vintage, Mullard Mustard) along with a 100w model I built in 2008 with SoZo regular caps.

The new SoZo and the Mustard caps sounded much better than the std SoZo caps, even though they were six years old (did this test last September before the LA AMP Show).

Then I compared the mustards to the SoZo Vintage using a Metro head switcher. They very close, the SoZo having a tiny bit more aggression, upper mids to them than the mustards.

I used identical power tubes (Winged C EL34) ANOS preamp tubes (Amperex Bugle Boys) and the same cab. Both amps were built in the same week, got a 48 hour burn in, and a couple hours of loud playing time on them before doing the test.

From that I determined that the signal caps were an important factor in the tone. I then put in mustard caps in the 2007 (took out the SoZo std) and it took a big leap in tone to compete with the other two.

I'm not discounting that filter caps and other parts might need break in time, too, but between a 7 year old amp with 100's of hours to two with 50 hours on it, there was hardly any difference.

Now I just want to double check that the 50w models will do the same.

Gotta go, 40 speakers to pack and ship overseas today.

[Scumback Speakers]

Accidental double post.

[Scumback Speakers]

I got to spend about an hour comparing my original Mullard Mustard equipped 50w I built in 2007 to the new one with the latest SoZo caps.

The 07 model sounds a tad fuller on the low strings. After 7 years of high volume pummeling, I'd figure there's several hundred hours on that amp.

The brand new one has 24-36 hours of burn in, and 2 hours of playing on it. It's damned close. A little tiny bit more treble than the 07, and a tiny bit less bass. Past that it's a toss up, and you're splitting hairs.

I'd have no problem offering the newest SoZo caps as a fine alternative to vintage Mustard caps. Considering there's about a $150-200 difference between the sets of caps, you can make that judgement yourself based on your finances.

[Blackburn]

It's good to hear that Sozo is still doing a great job on mustard recreation but I'm still waiting for .047uf to become available, assuming that's their plan. Don't know why they would leave out such a common value and one that serves as a replacement for some old amps that used them and new ones being cloned.