2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
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2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
Hey fellow forumites,
Its been a year since posting the first attempt at a Parallel Loop.
The original design goal was
1) In serial mode - as close to the 'original' schematic as possible
2) In Parallel mode - as transperent as possible AND unity gain.
I've done a lot of back and forth and have worn out a couple of wall-to-wall carpets And if you compare the old and updated schemo, you will notice that the circuit is slimmed down to equal the original dumblelator.
The reason for the updated loop, is a desire to build an all-in-one amp head, with built-in loop + a small effects processor (SE70) in the bottom of the cabinet. Hence, all you have to do is connect guitar and speaker cab and off you go.
1) Serial mode is now identical to the regular dumblelator.
2) Parallel mode is trimmed to equal the frequency curve (not the compression) of serial mode, which has a slight mid boost and a slight 12KHz roll off as documented by Glasman in this post: http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... sound+loop
Built-in loop - If you decide to do a built-in the loop, you might what to add cable simulation capacitors of 150-200p at the input and at the output. If so, don't forget to add a 47-68p capacitor to the master volume. This is not an easy task, it takes LOT of experimentation to get it right. Just make a search for post by Dogears or Glasman regarding this topic.
Stand-alone loop - If you already have a regular dumblelator, you can add a switch and two resistors+ to caps in order to get parallel operation.
This version of the parallel loop is the best, I can come up with. However, in parallel I miss the compression and must agree with Dogears and others, that you don't get the compression and that the bass notes are different when using a (Kevin O'Conner (KOC)/ Aiken inspired) parallel loop like this one. Therefore, I have ordered a Suhr Minimix2 (inspired by a lot of you guys), in order to test if the regular Dumblelator series mode with the addition of the minimix2 is the ticket to parallel operation (with compression)
Let me hear the verdict if you decide to give it a go.
Happy to share with y'all (but don't nick it NIK)
Its been a year since posting the first attempt at a Parallel Loop.
The original design goal was
1) In serial mode - as close to the 'original' schematic as possible
2) In Parallel mode - as transperent as possible AND unity gain.
I've done a lot of back and forth and have worn out a couple of wall-to-wall carpets And if you compare the old and updated schemo, you will notice that the circuit is slimmed down to equal the original dumblelator.
The reason for the updated loop, is a desire to build an all-in-one amp head, with built-in loop + a small effects processor (SE70) in the bottom of the cabinet. Hence, all you have to do is connect guitar and speaker cab and off you go.
1) Serial mode is now identical to the regular dumblelator.
2) Parallel mode is trimmed to equal the frequency curve (not the compression) of serial mode, which has a slight mid boost and a slight 12KHz roll off as documented by Glasman in this post: http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... sound+loop
Built-in loop - If you decide to do a built-in the loop, you might what to add cable simulation capacitors of 150-200p at the input and at the output. If so, don't forget to add a 47-68p capacitor to the master volume. This is not an easy task, it takes LOT of experimentation to get it right. Just make a search for post by Dogears or Glasman regarding this topic.
Stand-alone loop - If you already have a regular dumblelator, you can add a switch and two resistors+ to caps in order to get parallel operation.
This version of the parallel loop is the best, I can come up with. However, in parallel I miss the compression and must agree with Dogears and others, that you don't get the compression and that the bass notes are different when using a (Kevin O'Conner (KOC)/ Aiken inspired) parallel loop like this one. Therefore, I have ordered a Suhr Minimix2 (inspired by a lot of you guys), in order to test if the regular Dumblelator series mode with the addition of the minimix2 is the ticket to parallel operation (with compression)
Let me hear the verdict if you decide to give it a go.
Happy to share with y'all (but don't nick it NIK)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Diva or not? - Respect for Mr. D's work....)
Re: 2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
So you have reduced the two 220K resistors to 100K and bypassed them with ceramics.
I have yet to try the parallel loop again.
I need to work up a layout and see how the switching will have to be wired.
You also left the 1M grid leak off of the second stage.
But you still have the local feedback loop, so you must like that, eh?
No cap on grid?
I need to experiment with this.
What does the $250 Suhr device bring you that the Dumbleator doesn't?
I have yet to try the parallel loop again.
I need to work up a layout and see how the switching will have to be wired.
You also left the 1M grid leak off of the second stage.
But you still have the local feedback loop, so you must like that, eh?
No cap on grid?
I need to experiment with this.
What does the $250 Suhr device bring you that the Dumbleator doesn't?
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
- boldaslove6789
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Re: 2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
I wish I had a Suhr Mini Mix to try to compare to regular serial useStructo wrote: What does the $250 Suhr device bring you that the Dumbleator doesn't?
When using my T.C. unit in serial It takes away from my amps regular response.
Greg D.C.
Can you dig it?
(NEW VIDS here!!) http://www.youtube.com/user/GDClarkProject
http://quinnamp.com/ http://www.prairiewoodguitars.com/
http://www.funkymunkpedals.com/
Can you dig it?
(NEW VIDS here!!) http://www.youtube.com/user/GDClarkProject
http://quinnamp.com/ http://www.prairiewoodguitars.com/
http://www.funkymunkpedals.com/
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Re: 2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
Yeah, now the serial mode is identical to the Dumblelator, so some parts had to be slimmed off (like the grid cap and resistor in the first version).Structo wrote:So you have reduced the two 220K resistors to 100K and bypassed them with ceramics.
I have yet to try the parallel loop again.
I need to work up a layout and see how the switching will have to be wired.
You also left the 1M grid leak off of the second stage.
But you still have the local feedback loop, so you must like that, eh?
No cap on grid?
I need to experiment with this.
What does the $250 Suhr device bring you that the Dumbleator doesn't?
The Minimix2 is used in a regular (serial mode) dumblelator. You connect it to the dumblelator send/return like you would connect any muliteffects device, and hereafter connect yor multieffect to the Suhr.
The Suhr takes care of mixing in the effect in parallel mode.
This gives you both Dumblelator in series mode with compression and parallel. Check it out at Suhr site.
Diva or not? - Respect for Mr. D's work....)
- boldaslove6789
- Posts: 957
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:52 pm
- Location: Near Dallas, TX
Re: 2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
Sorry to derail the thread but Is there any info on the Suhr MiniMix on the web to build one or something similar?
Greg D.C.
Can you dig it?
(NEW VIDS here!!) http://www.youtube.com/user/GDClarkProject
http://quinnamp.com/ http://www.prairiewoodguitars.com/
http://www.funkymunkpedals.com/
Can you dig it?
(NEW VIDS here!!) http://www.youtube.com/user/GDClarkProject
http://quinnamp.com/ http://www.prairiewoodguitars.com/
http://www.funkymunkpedals.com/
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- Posts: 1314
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 12:57 pm
- Location: Dumble City, Europe
Re: 2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
You're right..why build, tweak, tweak and tweak a fine amp...only to ruin its tone with poor converters.boldaslove6789 wrote:I wish I had a Suhr Mini Mix to try to compare to regular serial useStructo wrote: What does the $250 Suhr device bring you that the Dumbleator doesn't?
When using my T.C. unit in serial It takes away from my amps regular response.
Maybe you shoild try the parallel mod,which shoild set you back about 2$.
Diva or not? - Respect for Mr. D's work....)
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- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 12:57 pm
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Re: 2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
There's a lot of different DIY loopers. Like these:boldaslove6789 wrote:Sorry to derail the thread but Is there any info on the Suhr MiniMix on the web to build one or something similar?
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pro ... zer-projec
http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/prod ... 9c9cc3a1d2
Or you could use a mackie mixer (like Bob-I) or get an old Rane splitter mixer. Whatever you choose it will basically do the same.
However, I want the Suhr - its been tried and tested.
Diva or not? - Respect for Mr. D's work....)
- boldaslove6789
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Re: 2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
Thanks but I don't speak that language. too bad it looks like a possible circuit to build. That PCB and layout in the PDF looks confusing although.
Greg D.C.
Can you dig it?
(NEW VIDS here!!) http://www.youtube.com/user/GDClarkProject
http://quinnamp.com/ http://www.prairiewoodguitars.com/
http://www.funkymunkpedals.com/
Can you dig it?
(NEW VIDS here!!) http://www.youtube.com/user/GDClarkProject
http://quinnamp.com/ http://www.prairiewoodguitars.com/
http://www.funkymunkpedals.com/
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Re: 2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
VERY nice sounding fuzz!boldaslove6789 wrote:Thanks but I don't speak that language. too bad it looks like a possible circuit to build. That PCB and layout in the PDF looks confusing although.
jim@Omegaamps
- boldaslove6789
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- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:52 pm
- Location: Near Dallas, TX
Re: 2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
Thanks Jim
Greg D.C.
Can you dig it?
(NEW VIDS here!!) http://www.youtube.com/user/GDClarkProject
http://quinnamp.com/ http://www.prairiewoodguitars.com/
http://www.funkymunkpedals.com/
Can you dig it?
(NEW VIDS here!!) http://www.youtube.com/user/GDClarkProject
http://quinnamp.com/ http://www.prairiewoodguitars.com/
http://www.funkymunkpedals.com/
Re: 2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
What TC unit do you have and why do you think it takes away the response?boldaslove6789 wrote:I wish I had a Suhr Mini Mix to try to compare to regular serial useStructo wrote: What does the $250 Suhr device bring you that the Dumbleator doesn't?
When using my T.C. unit in serial It takes away from my amps regular response.
I have a TC G Sharp that I run in my dumbleator and it seems to work fine.
Granted, I am used to the way my amp sounds with the dumbleator so maybe I don't hear it.
But, I designed the amp and loop to play nice together so maybe it just works good.
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
Re: 2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
I drew this up yesterday.
This is an untested layout and I'd appreciate another set of eyes on it to see if I made any mistakes.
Drawing edited with correct jacks shown.
This is an untested layout and I'd appreciate another set of eyes on it to see if I made any mistakes.
Drawing edited with correct jacks shown.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Structo on Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:49 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
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Re: 2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
Looks fine to me, Tom
Diva or not? - Respect for Mr. D's work....)
- boldaslove6789
- Posts: 957
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:52 pm
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Re: 2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
Its a TC M300
Greg D.C.
Can you dig it?
(NEW VIDS here!!) http://www.youtube.com/user/GDClarkProject
http://quinnamp.com/ http://www.prairiewoodguitars.com/
http://www.funkymunkpedals.com/
Can you dig it?
(NEW VIDS here!!) http://www.youtube.com/user/GDClarkProject
http://quinnamp.com/ http://www.prairiewoodguitars.com/
http://www.funkymunkpedals.com/
Re: 2. version - Parallel Loop for amp garage users only - LOL
I think most of there rack units are similar.
Now they have the M350 out.
Mine is an older G Sharp but has most of the same delay and reverb settings.
Good sounding piece of kit.
Now they have the M350 out.
Mine is an older G Sharp but has most of the same delay and reverb settings.
Good sounding piece of kit.
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!