One stop shopping?

[JamesO]

Having that context and background information I think makes it easy for a lot of people here to understand what's being shared, it can be very confusing though. Sometimes the information that's readily available through search engines is only readily available if you already know it and therefore know what to search for. An example would be someone suggesting I look at the 80's grail ODS. I looked for that for a few days without luck. A lot of threads are also filled with incomplete tidbits; comments like, "No, that's not the one to use," without anything else.

It can be more difficult to find info here than a lot of people think, but I'm glad I've been able to find what I have. I certainly know I wouldn't be building a new ODS without this forum.

[ayan]

I think the forum is here to give us a place where we can all share information and exchange ideas. I don't believe it is intended to be a neat data repository where some folks contribute so that others don't have to do any work for themselves.

I guess my idea of a place to share info contridicts the data repository idea. I'm not looking to rip anyone off. We are all interested in building exacting replicas of Dumble amps...

Although you quoted me literally, I suspect the essence of my meesage didn't come through for you. I said a NEAT data repository... things are what they are. If you need something neater, it would a great contribution to compile everything that other people have already put out and organize it better.

Gil

[rutledj]

We are all interested in building exacting replicas of Dumble amps

This is incorrect. Your presupposition is possibly why you are feeling the energy in the response to the "lets put all the secrets and tweaks in one place where anybody can get them all with little to no effort" idea.
Some of us are here to glean information and try to understand tube amp theory/design. HAD was/is a brilliant man and a great amplifier builder. I am very gratefull for his contributions to the tube guitar amp world. I feel similarly about KF. I build amps that incorporate ideas - some start out very "clone" like because its a good starting place, but from there I modify and tweak it until it sounds as much like I want it to as possible. Dogears continually posts clips of amps he is trying to tweak to perfection - he and many others here are not trying to build "genuine replicas".

I stand corrected!

Thanks

[talbany]

I Like the way it is now! The most valuable info Ive recieved in this site has been in the cracks. everyones little tweeks and suggestions ,that way you can build the perfect amp for your desired tone. Just using the schematics as a starting point and tweeking your way to perfection. That's the fun part to me. There is plenty of info to get you started in the Dumble files section.Tone is Subjective


Tony

[tele_player]

Which schematic? And how do you know it's correct? And how do you know you've found all the choices?

I'm new here, so I won't be too critical But it is something of a mess.

[talbany]

There is no one Dumble style Overdrive Special. Dumble had several versions and upgrades he did over the years, not to take anything away from Funk's awesome looking amps you just cannot look at it and say that's my sound, it might be!! Point is there are many great designs here based on this topology. The Hybrid style, The HRM, The D"Lite, Bluesmaster Mods,as well as all the options, built in Dumbleator, built in Reverb. 100watt ,50watt etc,
Dumble did all these things and they all change the tone and feel drasticially. Though I agree to enter the board now would be confusing.
If someone could do a mile long post on the sounds, tones,feels,smells on each version (how about it Scott) that would no doubt point you to the right Layout .
What I ment by my last post was there is not alot of worthless BS on this site. Even if you skim thru the site you will learn more accurate info on the ODS than you will any other site on the web, In my Opinion

[tubedogsmith]

Dude, I was just kidding.

If I had time I'd give you all the info, but I don't. I spent the better part of the last 5 years of my life compiling all this information, so forgive me if I don't rush right out to compile you a list at the expense of more of my time.

Maybe it would do you some good to attend the school of hard knocks!! That's how Gil, Scott, Chris, Norm, Myself, and alot of others have done it.

I wasn't trying to start anything. Just posing the question. I'd be glad to do it myself if I could find the information. I just don't think it is all here. If it is, it is buried within the hundreds of threads here. Some as just passing remarks that so-and-so used this value instead of what is on the schematic and got this result. Some information is passed via PMs. I've seen references made to different PI networks but haven't seen them specified in schematics.

Funk, I appreciate the work you have done. You have answered the many questions I have posted here along with others. I'm looking foward to getting one of your chassis'.


Perhaps I should just stay quiet and just read

Everything is here times 10!! Really. Looking around and reading is the best way to learn. As you have new questions you can then research your own answers. When you get into building and have specific questions or troubleshooting challenges you'll get all the answers here you could hope for.

[tele_player]

I understand that there is no one Overdrive Special. But you need to read every thread to find even the basic schematics for the various named versions, and even then you might find old, incorrect revisions of those schematics and layouts.

Yes, there's plenty of good information here, no argument on that - and in the next few weeks/months I'll build a few and see what I come up with, but it would be nice if there was a place to find verified schematics and layouts for the various versions, as well as summary overviews of the differences between the named versions.

[gearhead]

Which schematic? And how do you know it's correct? And how do you know you've found all the choices?

I'm new here, so I won't be too critical But it is something of a mess.

How do you know? You don't. But put in some time looking around the site for a few HOURS and then ask cogent, well-thought out questions.

What your asking is for folks who have already put in a LOT of time to get the collective knowledge to where it is now (literally hundreds to thousands of hours) to then spend more time to put this on the site as some sort of easily digestable, centralized, and accessible product. So you don't have to waste your time.

The fact is NOBODY contributing to this site owes anybody ANYTHING. This is not a for-pay service, nor is it a site supported by advertisements. It is a collective knowledge database and a community.

Be part of the community. As has been suggested, doing such a collation and collection of imformation would be an invaluable and important contribution.

[tele_player]

I've spent many hours reading this forum. I stick with what I wrote.

Actually, I'm not asking for anything - just observing that the information here lacks organization. I can find what I need here, and yes, I'll ask cogent questions when they come up.

[rutledj]

I wasn't trying to start a fight here
Someone earlier mentioned that searching wasn't always useful if you didn't know what particular terms to use in the search query. Many of you "old timers" already know those terms. Many of use newbies don't
(I know, I can hear you now, read them all! I will).

but it would be nice if there was a place to find verified schematics and layouts for the various versions, as well as summary overviews of the differences between the named versions.

I think this is the core of what I was trying to get to. Having verified schematics and layouts in one place. A known "gold standard" if you will that would serve as a starting point, something you know "should" work if followed/built correctly. Maybe then scanning through the threads looking for those hidden "tweaks" would be fun.

Take this post for instance: http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1902

It list 3 "final" ods schematics. Well, the HRM I get. The other two, well one says ODS 101 NonHrm, the other says ODS 101 but shows all of the HRM options. The ODS101 NonHRM shows a pre od network. The ODS101 shows a different pre od network. Is that one just for the HRM options on the page? Who knows? I guess try all combinations.

Hopefully I will have time to read through all the post and collect the various tidbits into one location. Unfortunately, I have a feeling, just from what I have read, that I will find info that relates to other things that I don't know. Maybe after reading everything many times it will all come together. Then I can start me journey (again) down the road of not-so-hard knocks

[nickt]

Which schematic? And how do you know it's correct? And how do you know you've found all the choices?

I'm new here, so I won't be too critical But it is something of a mess.

How do you know? You don't. But put in some time looking around the site for a few HOURS and then ask cogent, well-thought out questions.

What your asking is for folks who have already put in a LOT of time to get the collective knowledge to where it is now (literally hundreds to thousands of hours) to then spend more time to put this on the site as some sort of easily digestable, centralized, and accessible product. So you don't have to waste your time.

The fact is NOBODY contributing to this site owes anybody ANYTHING. This is not a for-pay service, nor is it a site supported by advertisements. It is a collective knowledge database and a community.

Be part of the community. As has been suggested, doing such a collation and collection of imformation would be an invaluable and important contribution.

Asking for help isn't trying to rip folks off. The fact that there are guys who CAN answer questions here is why folks ask them - it's a sign of respect and a wish to "do it right" like the gurus.

Theres lots of different people here. Lots are old codgers like myself looking to build a dream amp just because that's what old codgers do (ships in bottles, trainwrecks, wood turning, dumbles, lapidary, 5E3s ... ). Lots of others seem to be amp techs or boutique vendors. So there's a bit of a divide between the pros and hobbyists.

Personally I'd like to do exactly what some folks are asking for - organise, consolidate and publish in one place. However the only way anyone could do that would be with help from the community. The result would make it easier for noobs to get started but it really wouldn't take anything away from those who've "paid their dues". A schematic/layout, even if it's totally correct, doesn't make an amp great.

Now all I've got to do is learn Visio - find all the existing info - sort it out - then ask for help verifying it and crediting back to the original author.

Anyone want to help on this?

cheers
Nick

[skeezbo]

Brandon, Dogears, Gil, everyone,
Well I sure have enjoyed reading all the threads. Now that I know a little bit about it, I think I need to go read them all again! Thanks for everything, guys. Please keep it up.

Skeezbo

[gearhead]

I've spent many hours reading this forum. I stick with what I wrote.

Actually, I'm not asking for anything - just observing that the information here lacks organization. I can find what I need here, and yes, I'll ask cogent questions when they come up.

Alrighty, I came off a bit stronger than I intended, but I do also stand by what I said. Too many folks come here and act like they're entitled to a neatly packaged product. And even stated observations are not always neutral; they carry a message. "Your room is a mess" is an observation, but unless you say "and let me help you clean it up", there is a pretty strong implied meaning. If you didn't mean that, am sorry.

As has been said, it is what it is. Help change that.

NickT; way to go! Asking questions is, imho, a core, bedrock, crucial aspect of this site. It's as, or quite often more, important than the schematics and layouts.

[Fischerman]

Nick, I'd be glad to help. I have very little Dumble knowledge but I have used VISIO at work for many years (admittedly I don't use it nearly as much as I did 10 years ago). However, I'm more of a schematic guy...I can look at a schematic and see exactly what's going on whereas I have to look at a layout much longer. I just do my layout drawings by hand usually, schematics with VISIO.

I think the newer members have expressed their frustrations pretty well...and they are pretty accurate. No matter how much anyone may try to downplay their complaints...they are real and accurate. This place is not very well organized...and IMO it really has nothing to do with whether all the info is here (it is...probably) or that it makes it too easy for someone who hasn't put in a bunch of time (could not be more irrelevant). If it's not well organized then it's not well organized...and IMO that's almost never a good thing.

There is no one Dumble style Overdrive Special. Dumble had several versions and upgrades he did over the years, not to take anything away from Funk's awesome looking amps you just cannot look at it and say that's my sound, it might be!! Point is there are many great designs here based on this topology. The Hybrid style, The HRM, The D"Lite, Bluesmaster Mods,as well as all the options, built in Dumbleator, built in Reverb. 100watt ,50watt etc,

This is a great arguement FOR better organization. Just having some sort of 'definitions' sticky would help immensely. I've been searching/reading here for a little bit and I still don't know what many of these definitions are. Sure, I've read little passing comments about them...such as: the only differences in a BM are in the PI (which I later found out was wrong...but how would I know which is the truth?).