Speaker Break In

[Littlewyan]

Lets start a lively debate. Speaker break in! Plenty believe, plenty don't. Reason I bring this up is I just bought some Celestion Creamback G12M-65 Speakers. They're ok, tiny bit harsh sounding at the moment depending on where you stand when playing but I haven't tested them in the best environments, i.e. my tiny bedroom and my lounge with lots of stuff in the way. Anyway I was wondering if they'll change as I play them more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlS_k4niVMs

Found this test on youtube. Interestingly I can't notice any difference between the clean tones or the little solo. However there is definitely a slight difference when it comes to the scooped distorted test. These are of course my own observations, what does everyone else think?

[tubeswell]

New (unbroken-in) paper cones always sound a little harsher than cones that have been run in for a bit.

[Structo]

Check out the Speakers and Cab section.

Jim from Scumback Speakers has posted several times around the internet, about how he approaches and recommends speaker break in.

Sure there are differing opinions, but this guy is in the speaker business.

[cbass]

Whack It real hard with hammer right in the magnet . that breaks em in every time

[teemuk]

As far as I know, the documented phenomenon is related to driver's "spider" becoming softer from mechanical stress. (e.g. hairlince cracks developed to the epoxy doping, etc.)

These will in turn slightly effect the suspension compliance, or Cms, of the driver. Basically "stiffness" of suspension. This effect will in turn have other side effects.

Mainly the resonant characteristics of the driver change. If suspension changes it effects driver's resonant frequency and many other parameters more related to "tuned" enclosure systems, which work in interaction with resonant characteristics of the driver. For example, after break in we might measure a different value for ideal enclosure volume than before the break in.

Documented experiments about driver break in, however, show that effects of these shifts are in practice quite negligible. Free air resonance may change... But can we really hear if it changes from 100 Hz to 103 Hz? Similarly the documented magnitude of effects to other related T/S parameters mostly seem to be in the order of 1 - 10%. If our ideal enclosure volume changes from, say, 12 litres to 12.2 litres is the difference really that important? We probably created that much of a difference just by swapping in a speaker with different frame type. I would think the changes are by magnitude so small that any fine tuning is more or less futile. How much tolerance can we associate to T/S parameters anyway? Are there people designing every single speaker enclosure from scracth AFTER break of the particular driver going to that very specific enclosure has been initiated. ...Or do we just live with small tolerances like usually?

One experiment showed that while there were obvious and easily measurable shifts in things like resonant frequency their overall effect to speaker's frequency response was still limited to range of 0.3 - 1dB. In big picture that's practically an ignoreable magnitude of change. Walk one meter away from the cab, or perhaps just turn you head slightly, we have created a response difference of about equal magnitude. Did you hear it? Did your speaker cab start to sound dramatically different? This is ballpark of the "scale" of audibility of break in-related effects.

I have never read a documented experiment about speaker break in where results would have had magnitudes that are easily audible. The phenomenon, and its effects, are real, but they are far from night-and-day difference people commonly seem to attribute to "break in". I merely regard effects of break in as something one must consider when fine adjustments are made to design of a tuned enclosure but not as something one could distinct easily by ears only.

Also, documented experiments show that most drastic changes occur within first -seconds- of using the (new) driver. If there is any painfully obvious effect of break in you would hear it when you strum the very first tone out of the amp. And BANG most likely about 90% of permanent driver break in happened right in those very first seconds.

After that the break in rate rapidly declines and in maybe 20 - 40 hours (probably a ballbark value anyway) reaches something you could vaguely describe as "equilibrium". The shift has slowed down so much it gets difficult to measure any more.

I suppose some of the effects of these much slower shifts could be audible, at least they are very often clearly measurable. But in case you are wondering how long it takes for your new driver to finally break in the sad news are that you missed that train already. What you are doing to the driver after very first seconds of its use is not going to contribute well... "substantially" to break in.

Also, human can preserve an auditory memory of tone (in accurate and detailed sense of it) maybe less than a minute. If occupied, few seconds at best. So no, without recorded data that we could compare uniterruptedly we can't accurately remember how the (new) driver sounded yesterday and how it compares to how the driver sounds now. Heck, we can't remember accurately how it sounded even one minute ago.

If measurable effects of speaker break in are in the ballpark of 1 dB or less to response, and maybe few Hertz changes at best in resonant frequency we are already borderlining audibility in hardcore manner. If it's difficult to even verify these effects without precision measurement tools what do you consider are our changes to retain any memory of those very same small details?

This single biological trait is enough to cast a shadow of doubt over results of most listening tests/experiences confirming speaker break in over larger time frame. We can't hear it. We need measuring tools. And that's just one item in the huge pile of psychoacoustic / biological effects associated to human hearing. What we hear is first processed "mechanically" by organs within the ear, and after that it's interpreted by our brain. And human brain does not make mistakes, does it?


It would be interesting if someone conducted a study about audibility of such a small changes in driver parameters vs. audibility of mere psychoacoustic effects (e.g. confirmation bias that break in must have very distinct effects) and effects of plain biologic processes of hearing (e.g. hearing fatigue). I wouldn't be surprised if "break in" turns out to be the least contributing factor.

An additional aspect to note is that shifts of equal magnitude in driver characteristics also happen just because the driver gets heated. In difference to "break in" this shift is not permanent and the driver restores its original parameters when it cools down.

[Scumback Speakers]

Speaker break in is a real thing.

You can hear it with your ears, if they're still working well. If not, then it's quite possible you've fried your ears from playing too loud in a small space, or they weren't that good to begin with. The other option is that your speaker is built with much stiffer cones, spider/suspension and doping that it may take far longer to break in than others.

All of the touring players I know & work with, plus 80-90% of my clients think speaker break in is real, at least based on how many speakers I get ordered with factory break in (FBI for short). I had 37 speakers ordered last week, and all but 5 were ordered with FBI (2 of those 5 went to Tungsten Amps, he does his own FBI with a variac).

Here's an 11/30/15 comment via email from a player in the EU who ordered his J75 100w speaker with FBI a few months back...

Hi Jim,

Just a quick note to let you know that the J75 is a great speaker and perfect for the PRS 2-channel amp. It took a few more hours to open up a bit more but now it’s just absolutely fantastic.

I might get a second one for a 1x12 extension cab, but this won’t happen before February next year.

Many thanks for this fantastic speaker.

Best wishes,

Roger

I have a bunch of emails that basically say that same thing over the last 11 years from players in their bedrooms to stadium filling bands. I'd have to conclude it's real for them, despite what the lab techs and their equipment in a "controlled environment/study" have to say.

Not sure how many of us play in a controlled environment. I know I don't. Then again, I've heard speaker(s) break in and don't require an oscilloscope, waveform generators and a number of mics placed at 16 angles to hear it.

[Littlewyan]

When these tests were conducted, what speakers did they use? Jim will be able to answer this but am I right in saying that Guitar Speakers have much stiffer cones when compared to say Hifi speakers? Just going by logic wouldn't a stiffer cone break in more than a softer cone? If they used Hifi speakers and they do have softer cones then they may not have noticed much difference.

Also I stated in a comment on that video that I heard no difference between the clean tone comparisons, however with the distorted comparions I definitely heard a difference. I've also noticed this before when testing my attenuators. When comparing a clean tone the difference was almost unnoticeable, however when comparing a distorted tone the difference was huge. I wonder why this would be. More harmonics maybe? Did they just use a clean tone in this test?

I'm not saying anyone is wrong here, I just enjoy discussions like this and like to know all the facts and I hope threads like this will help others. Thats partly why I start them . I also have to say teemuk, you mention our brains can't remember the tone for long enough, well mine struggled to remember the beginning of your post when I got to the end!!! Very informative and detailed, thank you for taking the time to write it out. Thank you all for your responses.

Jim - You're probably extremely busy, but could you perhaps record a few clips through one of your speakers when it is brand new and then do a recording after its had it's factory break in? That'd be very interesting to hear.

[Scumback Speakers]

My clips and test results have shown pretty much what Littlewyan posted...clean tones sound very similar between M, H and alnico speakers. My reasoning is that there's not enough signal change on clean tones to affect the speaker's output characteristics.

On overdriven, mid to high gain tones though there's more of the tube, pickup and power section factoring into the signal changing the output dramatically.

I don't record brand new speakers for two reasons...
1) They don't stay that way for longer than 40-50 hours if you're playing at 30w or higher, they break in.
2) No one wants to hear a speaker brand new, because it doesn't stay that way for more than 40-50 hours.

Of course there are variables as I posted above, cone stiffness, suspension/spider stiffness, how much doping, etc, etc.

I can't tell you what type of cones are used in hi-fi systems versus guitar speakers. Why? Simple, I don't build hi-fi speakers, nor design them. I feel if you don't have some fairly decent knowledge on a subject you shouldn't post your opinions. Basically because you don't know what you're talking about.

You'll never catch me talking about the pain of childbirth or brain surgery since I'm not female, or a brain surgeon. The internet allows, literally, anyone with an opinion to voice that opinion. How qualified they are to discuss a subject or post their opinion is another question, of course. And the amount of people posting opinions they've cut, copied and pasted from other sources, then claimed as their own is another facet of the internet I have to shake my head at.

Not trying to cast aspersions, or say anyone is wrong about anything here, but I am posting the facts as I've discovered them through my own research, and a number of touring players and clients agree with what I've posted with their own emails to me.

I encourage everyone to do their own research, and take a large grain of salt with things they read online unless there's some sort of backup, credentials, personal or professional experience that can be verified.

I was born in Minnesota, but maybe I'm actually from Missouri, since more often than not I'm saying "Show me!"...or in my case, listen to this.

[Littlewyan]

Sorry Jim, I just thought you may have known.

I only ask about the comparison clips of new speakers vs broken in speakers as it'd be interesting to hear the difference in a few clips.

[Scumback Speakers]

Sorry Jim, I just thought you may have known.

I only ask about the comparison clips of new speakers vs broken in speakers as it'd be interesting to hear the difference in a few clips.

No need to be sorry. After doing this speaker research stuff since 1998 I've learned that many speakers sound fine out of the box, but really fill out and sound their best after getting some time on them with an amp at volume.

[JMFahey]

Guitar speakers *do* break in, big way, you are softening not only the spider (impregnated cloth) but much more the speaker edge, which is plain paper.
Even if doped, it usually does not go all the way through.

I test same model speakers, both just made and after taking a beating and difference is huge, very audible.

So much so that customers hear it clearly, some can't believe it, ask for the sample speaker to be pulled from the test box and some even want that one, instead of the fresh one.

No problem, the fresh one gets well smoothed in about a week, since they play it LOUD .

Now in a cloth edge speaker, the variation is quite smaller, and very little in foam/rubber edge, Hi Fi types, because they usually have a large and soft spider, edge is very soft too, and the actual "spring" is cabinet air elasticity itself which of course does not vary.

[JD0x0]

It's real. My Webers always have had a very noticeable change within the first few hours

[Littlewyan]

Well I hope my speakers do break in. At the moment they are ear piercing but haven't got much clarity. Should have spent more and gone for some of Jim's speakers.

One thing I have thought of though is I currently have the black grill cloth on my JCM900 1936 2x12 Cab. Perhaps if I changed it for basketweave salt and pepper I'd get the tone I'm looking for.

[Firestorm]

Those beam blocker thinigies from Weber, I think, help. Speakers are imperfect. Jim knows this to a science. Certain ones sound like the voice of God. Others, not so much.

I have a 59 Vibrolux, original speaker. Wonderful sound. Took it out to protect it. The Italian one was almost as sweet. Out of the box.

Break-in is subtle. But it's there.

[Littlewyan]

I think I've made a mistake buying these speakers. Found a comparison clip on another site comparing them to Greenbacks and they are definitely mid scooped in comparison and have more high end. Dam.