QUINN TKT183 6L6 ARRIVES

[CHIP]

IMO HAD progressed in his tone shaping of his ODS line of amps, due to the changing trends in the way guitar tones were used in the STYLE of music through the decades of the 70's ,80's, 90's. IMO the skyliner tone stack was developed to meet this change and not because it sounded better than the early versions of the ODS line.

[Cliff Schecht]

This conversation has degenerated into a bandwidth-wasting pissing contest that would be better taken offline

Sounds like every Dumble thread. You guys are a bunch of nancies when it comes to your opinions.

[guitardude57]

Tone is completely subjective..........

I find more interest in an individual creating unique tones, to allow their tone to be their own. Irregardless of the circuit used.

Semantics and descriptions of ideal tones.............. stupid stuff to argue about.

Some may like tones resembling Alka Seltzer in hot water.....not me.

The last clip had nothing below 250 Hz and sounded horrible to me. Sorry.

[talbany]

IMO HAD progressed in his tone shaping of his ODS line of amps, due to the changing trends in the way guitar tones were used in the STYLE of music through the decades of the 70's ,80's, 90's. IMO the skyliner tone stack was developed to meet this change and not because it sounded better than the early versions of the ODS line.

I agree

Tony

[CHIP]

Tone is completely subjective..........

I find more interest in an individual creating unique tones, to allow their tone to be their own. Irregardless of the circuit used.

Semantics and descriptions of ideal tones.............. stupid stuff to argue about.

Some may like tones resembling Alka Seltzer in hot water.....not me.

The last clip had nothing below 250 Hz and sounded horrible to me. Sorry.

Agreed

[Mr Dumble]

This conversation has degenerated into a bandwidth-wasting pissing contest that would be better taken offline

Totally agree. I have been trying to do that for several days. I am still willing to pay for the call Max. I am trying to get off the topic, but its hard when someone keeps quoting you, changing, or misrepresenting what you say, then presenting again and again as what you actually said.

Once again. Max. I agree with you there are many amps that sound similar, and many amps that sound totally unalike that would actually come down to personal taste, style, or application as to which would sound better. However, I also know there are amps that just kick the snot tonally out of other amps. You disagree with that last part. FINE! So lets just agree to disagree! I have not challenged your opinion, nor dog you around doing it. I am only defending my position.

[M Fowler]

Well as long as your enjoying your new amps TAG that is all that really matters.

I was wondering if that last clip wasn't a joke when I first listened to it

Mark

[boldaslove6789]

Dumble amps are sooo subjective. One may like Lindley's tone more so than Robbens or Santana's. The player makes the amp. If Lindley played Robbens amp it would still sound like Lindley. Different characteristics of these amps shine with the pickups,the guitar, and especially the fingers of whom is playing the amp. Can we all just agree to disagree and stop probing each other.

[ToneMerc]

Whew........................

[Max]

The later amps fetch much more money AFAIK

As far as I know this is not correct as a general rule.

Example:

David Lindley's two "old" Dumble ODS amps as an example AFAIK have been sold for more than every non celebrity owned/used "modern" Dumble ODS amp I know the selling price of up to know.

AFAIK in the last twenty years a fully original 2nd generation "pre-classic" ODS in EXC as an example did usually sell for more or less the same price as a fully original 5th or 6th generation "skyline" ODS in EXC - if both have not been celebrity owned. Some collectors - in Japan as an example - have been even more intersted in the "old" amps AFAIK.

As far as I know the selling price of a used Dumble amp mostly depends on:

Grade of general rarity and fame etc. of certain models
Example: a SSS will fetch more than an ODS and an ODS more than an Odyssey

Grade of originality (never touched by someone else than Alexander Dumble)
Example: An amp with replaced filter caps or that has been degooped or even modified will fetch less than an untouched one

Grade of rarity
Example: a 1st generation ODS amp will fetch more than a 2nd generation ODS amp

Grade of cosmetic condition

Grade of technical condition

Grade of previous circulation

Grade of publicity of the original and former owners/users and of the records the amp has been used for
Example: Larry Carlton’s current ODS amps will fetch more than the one Danny Kortchmar used in the seventies

Grade of documentation of the history/authenticity

All this is IMO very similar as with all "vintage" guitars and amps.

What is indeed special with Dumble amps is, that because their owners don’t sell them that often, a consistent market value level still isn't established:

Some sellers ask prices that only very few and very motivated buyers are willing to pay and some buyers offer prices that only very few and very motivated (desperate?) sellers are willing to accept. So AFAIK you will find reported sales results and prices asked by some dealers in the last years between 25,000 for let's say a modified and later restored 2nd generation amp mounted in a non original cabinet up to 100,000 and even higher for a celebrity owned/used ODS, SSS or Dumbleland (if full documentation of its use for the Texas Flood sessions would be available as an example).

This is perhaps comparable with the contemporary prices for ’58,’59,’60 bursts. Perhaps some very motivated seller will sell a fine plain example for 100,000 and perhaps one single most motivated buyer may be willing to pay 1,000,000 for one of the very famous ones (Green, Page etc.)

But statements like

the newer amp goes for double the money

are in my opinion simply – sorry – complete nonsense.

Cheers,

Max

[Mr Dumble]

The later amps fetch much more money AFAIK

As far as I know this is not correct as a general rule.

Example:

David Lindley's two "old" Dumble ODS amps as an example AFAIK have been sold for more than every non celebrity owned/used "modern" Dumble ODS amp I know the selling price of up to know.

AFAIK in the last twenty years a fully original 2nd generation "pre-classic" ODS in EXC as an example did usually sell for more or less the same price as a fully original 5th or 6th generation "skyline" ODS in EXC - if both have not been celebrity owned. Some collectors - in Japan as an example - have been even more intersted in the "old" amps AFAIK.

As far as I know the selling price of a used Dumble amp mostly depends on:

Grade of general rarity and fame etc. of certain models
Example: a SSS will fetch more than an ODS and an ODS more than an Odyssey

Grade of originality (never touched by someone else than Alexander Dumble)
Example: An amp with replaced filter caps or that has been degooped or even modified will fetch less than an untouched one

Grade of rarity
Example: a 1st generation ODS amp will fetch more than a 2nd generation ODS amp

Grade of cosmetic condition

Grade of technical condition

Grade of previous circulation

Grade of publicity of the original and former owners/users and of the records the amp has been used for
Example: Larry Carlton’s current ODS amps will fetch more than the one Danny Kortchmar used in the seventies

Grade of documentation of the history/authenticity

All this is IMO very similar as with all "vintage" guitars and amps.

What is indeed special with Dumble amps is, that because their owners don’t sell them that often, a consistent market value level still isn't established:

Some sellers ask prices that only very few and very motivated buyers are willing to pay and some buyers offer prices that only very few and very motivated (desperate?) sellers are willing to accept. So AFAIK you will find reported sales results and prices asked by some dealers in the last years between 25,000 for let's say a modified and later restored 2nd generation amp mounted in a non original cabinet up to 100,000 and even higher for a celebrity owned/used ODS, SSS or Dumbleland (if full documentation of its use for the Texas Flood sessions would be available as an example).

This is perhaps comparable with the contemporary prices for ’58,’59,’60 bursts. Perhaps some very motivated seller will sell a fine plain example for 100,000 and perhaps one single most motivated buyer may be willing to pay 1,000,000 for one of the very famous ones (Green, Page etc.)

But statements like

the newer amp goes for double the money

are in my opinion simply – sorry – complete nonsense.

Cheers,

Max

Not sure about anything else, but from what I see, mid to late 80s Dumbles sell for twice what 70s Dumbles do. To my ear, after A/Bing both, its because the 80s in person sound at LEAST twice as good.

[ChrisM]

[img:640:512]http://www.offresonance.com/wp-content/ ... cepalm.jpg[/img]

[Max]

IMO HAD progressed in his tone shaping of his ODS line of amps, due to the changing trends in the way guitar tones were used in the STYLE of music through the decades of the 70's ,80's, 90's. IMO the skyliner tone stack was developed to meet this change and not because it sounded better than the early versions of the ODS line.

Yes, IMO this is 100% correct. BTW: It is IMO very interesting in regard to this topic what Alexander Dumble has told about his collaboration with Steve Farris as an example. But IMO this is of course no one way road:

If you study the linkage between the history of music and the history of musical instruments and the timbre of their voices there are of course influences from both sides.

Western music as we know it from Bach to Zappa would not exist without tempered musical instruments as an example and many musical instruments and the colours they’ve added to a composer's palette would not exist without composers and musicians constantly asking for new voices or a better playability and more versatility.

The "tone" of a modern symphony orchestra is a completely different one than the "tone" of an orchestra in the 17th century. And to listen to Bach’s Brandenburg concertos played by a modern orchestra is a completely different experience than when they are played on baroque instruments.

That is why I personally regret to some extent that many guitar players today are that retro oriented and only try to emulate the tone of Jimmy Page etc. I regret this to some extent because the style and tone of all these "guitar heros", whose tones are now called "signature tones", all have been radical departures from long trodden roads and now their "pupils" laugh and shake their heads about as an example Henry Kaiser’s "crazy noise", just as my parents have laughed and shaken their heads about this "crazy noise" they could only perceive when I listened to "Foxy Lady". From innovation to emulation seems to be the newest fashion (New DVD box: "How to play like....in three days"!).

I would indeed and in full earnest be rather happy if some inspired guitar player would perhaps take such a "joke" tone as in this #183 clip as a starting point and would create some wild and fresh and new and unheard kind of music out of it.

That is why I was very happy when as an example Jack White appeared on the scene and demonstrated that blues (?) can have such a fresh and authentic modern voice and why I still love to pack some Andy Summers, Robert Fripp, or Adrian Belew stuff on my turntable if I am bored to death for an other time by some easy listening style Dumble stuff. God bless Tom Verlaine!

Have much fun all here on whatever road you will discover to be truly yours! Now I muusst beeee ooooon myyyyyyyy waaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy………...

Max

[Cliff Schecht]

Lol at supporting Henry Kaiser's stutter effect. Even if it has musical potential, he sure doesn't tap into it in that one clip! Poor HAD must have must have made one of his big design transitions after sitting through that noisefest.

[boldaslove6789]

LOL +1 WTF kind of psychedelic drugs was Kaiser on when he made that video.