Z Wreck

[kotatsuk]

crap, that was V2 that have no V2b... that seems normal for you
as you said V3 is the inverter.
now everything is clear... I just need to remove That 2 extra el84 to get half the power. ( my neighbors are all but not comprehensive when it comes to guitar amp volume)

[Blackburn]

Yeah, for your first build, an EL84 quad power section is a little far reaching. Maybe try building something like an 18w Marshall or Vox AC15. Something not quite as loud, as you said, and is simpler to get you acquainted with what lies ahead, however, most amps, be it a Rocket or an 18w Marshall will still be pretty loud when giving up the goods, and most will be too loud for fussy neighbors. Depends on how you're planning on running it.

[kotatsuk]

I seen a mini wreck SE build somewhere in the forum. I may start with this before attempting the Z wreck "clone"

My neighbors are used to hear a 30 watts line6 spider at half the power so maybe a mini wreck through my vintage 30 12" can do the job.

Sadly there's no sound clip of the mini wreck, and I want that golden tone of the Z wreck so bad.

my main concern at this moment is to find the PT and OT as well as the choke for 220V 50Hz somewhere in europe to avoid the BIG transport bill

[10thTx]

You could consider grafting the preamp of a Wreck on to a 6BM8 power amp. I'd use a 12A_7 for the LTPI and just the 6BM8 pentodes.

The amp ought to be around 7-9 watts. IF you used a LarMar PPIMV, you could get a great sounding amp at reasonably low volumes.

With respect, 10thtx

[Tillydog]

Tillydog, as you're in the UK do you know a good supplier for the PT and OT and eventually for the choke in europe?

Not really - you can get Hammond parts and others from Tubetown in Germany or Bluebell Audio in the UK.

In my Express, I used a PT04 36W power transformer from Ampmaker in the UK (It came up on ebay! )

After experimenting with cheaper OTs, I've currently got a 20-30W 'Super' OT from Living In The Past, also in the UK. (It only has one secondary tap, though.)

I'm not sure if either of these are suitable for the Z-Wreck (I don't know what is is) and neither of these are exactly to spec for the Express, either, but they work for me.

I only play at home and use a VVR and a low efficiency speaker to quieten the amp down which works exceptionally well IMHO. I started out trying to build a low wattage Express using triode output stages like the 4-4-0 over on AX84.com, but after several versions, I still couldn't get it to where I was happy, so I upgraded the transformers (again) and fitted 6V6s instead - much better! Also with a VVR, it it can be *quieter* than the 1 or 2 W versions I tried first and also sound better.

It took me two years to get this amp to where I'm happy with it, though!

[kotatsuk]

thanks for info Tillydog, much appreciated.

10thTx, I stick to the el84 sound but thanks for the schematic it helps me learning the theory

[cap217]

What I find interesting about the Z Wreck is that builds of other TW amps (even the top builders) have issues. There is a lot of attention and tweaking that happens before an amp is stable and shipped. But with a production amp, I dont think they get that attention. Yet we dont hear about mass issues with these amps.

Why is that?

[Smokebreak]

I'm far from an expert but higher gain amps(express) are usually going to present more difficulties than lower gain(Rocket), of course. My theory as to why the Express can be daunting is that there is so much gain squeezed into 3 stages. I've got a 6V6 SLO that didn't give me near as many problems as my Express(is still giving me!). As for "mass produced" amps, I would imagine that a lot of prototyping does go into the process before they hit the market, and a lot(?) of current production mass manufacturers use PCB, so there isn't as much of a need for all that attention for each amp(once the PCB layout is squared away). I'm sure laying out a PCB has it's own set off difficulties too, though.
But in the case of, say, Dr. Z's amps, they are each built by hand, and from what I've read they each do get a lot of TLC before they go out the door.

[M Fowler]

The Rocket is same as building a JTM45 or 5f6a very stable circuits.

The traditional clone Express needs careful arrangement of components and wires to be stable.

The rjguitar PCB amp I built was stable right from start up, great amp.

The Martin Manning turret board design based on a PCB Express was also stable with only the presonance being the only problem, another great amp.

Mark

[ampdoc1]

I can appreciate the Zwreck, but prefer the sound of my own modified Wreck. However, the Brad Paisley demos of the amp with the Zverb knocked me out. That's the most lush reverb I've ever heard. Is this just a copy of the old Fenders, or did Z add some mojo to it?

a'doc1

[M Fowler]

I can appreciate the Zwreck, but prefer the sound of my own modified Wreck. However, the Brad Paisley demos of the amp with the Zverb knocked me out. That's the most lush reverb I've ever heard. Is this just a copy of the old Fenders, or did Z add some mojo to it?

a'doc1

The gut shot of the Zverb looks stock Fender to me.

Mark

[cap217]

I read through this and read some stuff that I questioned dr z himself about. I went to the factory Thursday and we talked amps and brad paisley and ken Fischer. Dr z was really open about his stuff. I'm not an amp builder but I do understand a lot of the basics and all that.

I asked z what the first wreck amps were that he built for brad. He said the exact same thing that went into production but some people or brad himself made the wreck style box for it.

Transformer is different than the Fischer designed transformer in the other z amps.

I asked if brads amp is special or different in any way... He said no. Same amp. It's just that brad is that good and makes anything sound good.

About the speed comfort switch. Z wanted brad to pick what voltage he liked best. Brad wanted both. Z then had to use both and it raised the cost $80 just to do this. He wasn't happy about that but did it.

He had 2 of John fogerty's wrecks there and showed me the guts. Same amp, same layout. He had 150s in it but there was 1 difference. The blue atom electrolytic caps are now black. He said he beefed them up on all wrecks recently.

About transformers. He really likes cin tran. He used all the others but cin tran is what he likes.

He is tired of el84 amps. Not tired but he wants to do something new. I asked him to do a Liverpool style and he said he didn't have interest. He said that my rxes was close to a Liverpool. That surprised me.... I told him that the Liverpool is my favorite amp but I wish I had more clean headroom. He said the rxes is that with an ef86. Maybe that's why I like it.


He is coming out with a wreck 1x12 combo next year.

He is considering re making the mazaritti again. Not the gt.


The shop is small. Cool people work there. It's hard to get in the door but once you do people talk to you. Lots of speakers and cabs and amp head cabs. I wanted to take every color! Tubes everywhere. There seemed to be 1 or 2 main amp builders there. Hand wiring and hand cutting grill cloth. They said they get 8 amps a day out the door.

Lastly, we both talked amps and sounds and all that but we both agreed that at some point, just play. It's just an amp and its not magic. Back in the day you had a guitar and a fender or marshall. That's all.

Z is a nice guy. His people are nice. His shop is cool. New respect for him from my point of view.

Why did I go there? I needed an rxes boost pedal which he just gave me. I also needed a z logo that I bought. I needed clips for a celestion blue which he gave me. And we talked ef86s and he just gave me a new one. I don't think giving away is his thing but I must have found a good day and we got along.

[M Fowler]

Great report and I agree Mike Z. is a good guy and I like his amps.

Mark

[MCK]

Thanks for a great report. I saw your earlier question (pasted below) which I thought was spot on. Did you have a chance to ask him that? How does he ensure consistent customer experience with such a challenging circuit?

Loved my Z-Wreck which I recently had to sell due to pressing needs.

What I find interesting about the Z Wreck is that builds of other TW amps (even the top builders) have issues. There is a lot of attention and tweaking that happens before an amp is stable and shipped. But with a production amp, I dont think they get that attention. Yet we dont hear about mass issues with these amps.

Why is that?

[dave g]

Thanks for a great report. I saw your earlier question (pasted below) which I thought was spot on. Did you have a chance to ask him that? How does he ensure consistent customer experience with such a challenging circuit?

Loved my Z-Wreck which I recently had to sell due to pressing needs.

What I find interesting about the Z Wreck is that builds of other TW amps (even the top builders) have issues. There is a lot of attention and tweaking that happens before an amp is stable and shipped. But with a production amp, I dont think they get that attention. Yet we dont hear about mass issues with these amps.

Why is that?

Expresses and Liverpools are the Trainwreck circuits that are notorious for stability problems. The Z-Wreck is based on the Rocket, which has far less gain and is much less prone to stability problems.