Ceriatone 183 and Ford Amp

[vibratoking]

Mark, I am in about the same position at this point. I want to do a build but I am struggling a bit on deciding which one. I have been leaning toward the 124 with Skyliner.

Structo was kind enough to help me out in the parts procurement area. I can't thank him enough for that.

The 183 thing is pulling me in that direction.

I have done alot of PCB design and I am thinking of doing a full PCB design with different grounding and routing options, parts options, and ground plane options. Possibly everything, or as much as possible, on one PCB - power supply, preamps, tonestack, relays, parallel loop, etc... Certainly flying leads for the pots, jacks, switches, and sockets. I am thinking opamp based parallel loop because I don't like a series loop and I suspect a well designed opamp parallel loop is more than sufficient. Although, it is tempting to use what is already out there.

[JD0x0]

You can buy 6ps all day long as far as I know.

Thats comforting to hear. I thought they stopped production on them

[Structo]

Don't let a few resistor or cap values stop you from building the amp.

Leave the plate and cathode resistors off.
As well as any other part that sets it apart from the standard until you decide.

There is enough labor there to keep you busy for more than a couple days.
So you have time to ponder.

I would put it to you this way:

Do you like the way Robben Ford's Dumble sounds for the most part?
I would describe it as on the bright side and a bit gainy.

The #183 amp is really a different animal due to the EL34's and output tranny.
So you would have to decide that before ordering transformers.

I think the low plate #124 style is a bit more clean sounding, more Fendery, if you will.

I leaned more towards the Ford amp with my 100w.
High plates, Skyline, 4.7uF bypass, 220K-100K trimmer OD entrance, 270pf snubbers, 2.2uF presence cap, 10K NFB, Dual bias pots, mid boost with 390 treble cap.

I also have a relay that turns on the bright cap on the volume pot when in clean mode but is taken out when the OD is switched on.
I like that one a lot.

Things to try include increasing the filtering on V1 & V2 to 44uF.

[M Fowler]

Yes 6PS are available and the Mallory CDE ODs can still be found.

I was going with one amp as non HRM and the other as HRM but still wondering about many other things. Such a confusing amp to learn the lingo for.

[talbany]

Talking OD Here!!

One thing I noticed with both my standard HRM and Bluesmaster is I can get ball busting sustain and gain/sing at relatively low volumes..Not so much with my non HRM..I can also alter the tone for the lower volumes when in OD especially with the BM since I put the tone stack on the front..Which I recommend.. I usually grab one of these when doing a small room..The main thing I miss with the HRM is the added circuitry in the OD section takes something away from the interaction you get with the AX with the simpler more straight forward NON HRM.. BUT!! for me if I can get it into a room where I can get my Non HRM or Music Man breathing I'll always grab the Non HRM first.. I also have a HRM 100w PCB with Sozo caps that gets wall collapsing gain and sustain at whisper volumes.. The PCB's when designed right can be dead quiet offer more sustain and tighten things up at high gain settings at really low volumes.. Very cool if your a straight ahead rock player not looking to knock the walls down.. Different but COOL.. The 2nd generation #13 100w is by no means a bedroom/living room amp either..If your after big open in your face presence ridden loud and proud beer and cigar leave your Twin in the dust amp..Then this is your ride!!.. nothing like it..

Tony

IMHO of coarse..

[Mark]

Hmm, quite a long thread to read. Both sides have good points. Nik does sell parts that help the average builder, but he is building his business from info here. Not illegal, maybe not ethical.

Maybe Nik should put forward his side of the story?

I noticed the layout for his modded Plexi isn't freely available, I don't know about that one, so I won't jump to any conclusions.

Nik does offer other amp models not built here to such as the HiWatt stuff, Matchless, he must either been constantly trawling the internet or be developing his own product. Again I don't know about that one, so I won't jump to any conclusions.

It would seem the best solution is for Nik to move on and perhaps freeze membership here for a while. Nik could then prove his amps cut it without riding on anyone else's back.

Just a thought.

[buddyrama]

Well done.

[M Fowler]

Tony thanks for the post as usual good info.

Mark

[Mark]

I should point out I have bought a 18 watter parts from Nik and his service is first rate and I was very happy with the parts.

However, if people stop submitting ideas and circuits to experiment with, then the whole forum will grind to a halt.

What a lot of people have forgotten this is the second attempt at a Dumble forum, the first one died on the vine (like this forum it was a Yahoo site.) In the early days of the TWreck forum I was quite determined to make the Twreck forum work. The thing I learnt is you need the membership numbers so there is a lot of experimenting and reporting findings.

Members who don't contribute or give misinformation should get the bullet.

I hope that clarifies my statement, I like Nik. He supplies good parts and is important to guys wanting to build their own amp, but you do have to think of the greater good of the forum.

[talbany]

Nik does offer other amp models not built here to such as the HiWatt stuff, Matchless, he must either been constantly trawling the internet or be developing his own product. Again I don't know about that one, so I won't jump to any conclusions.

Here is the Problem
I am personally rather surprised that someone would take a layout schematic or other such info posted on an open forum like this one and offer a product based on this info without at least having gone inside said amp to at the very least verify the posted info and take some kind of measurements and study..(Especially with 102 Ford amp)... I am not saying in anyway that the info posted here is inaccurate and to my knowledge is accurate however before I would offer something like this to the public and name it (or make such an implication as OTS 183 or Ford Mustang) that I would want this info verified myself and try to get it closer than just a schematic or layout..Just looking at the value of the OD vol pot and the mis-wiring of the Jazz/Rock switch on OTS 183 shows me that they are not to concerned with getting things as accurate as possible..So drawing that parallel to transformers shielded wire and other pot types/values etc..is clear..

We all know Shad did a wonderful job at cloning 183.. studied the amp documented everything and used NOS parts and got very close although the 2 TKT's were still different.. I would caution those who hear these clips of 183 and especially #102 Ford amp that there is a very good chance these kits (OTS 183 & Ford Mustang) might not come close to the originals
. I personally would feel badly if this info was taken from my layouts and those who purchase these kits were disappointed that their Ford Mustang OTS didn't sound anything like 102 or 183 like OTS 183 which is a VERY REAL CHANCE would be a bummer for me.. I hope this is not the case..

Tony

[TheHandsomeOrk]

Robbens switched to pedals anyhow.
http://www.tanabe.tv/top/kudou/orderlist1012.html

[Max]

Members who don't contribute....should get the bullet.

Hi Mark,

are you sure about this - even after counting the number of members here with 0 posts: http://ampgarage.com/forum/memberlist.php ?

Cheers,

Max

[Mark]

Max, I will stand by that. If they have been here six months and have not contributed. They probably don't come here and in which case they may not come back at all. If they are an amp company, they too may be simply trawling for information.

Max, I should point out I was at one time a moderator during the Yahoo period. I had a simple motto ask questions and participate, it keeps the forum alive and during that time there was a real danger of it falling in a heap.

I'm not a mod now and the mods can do as they chose, but sometimes you have to consider, this forum is a good thing for a lot of people, and sometimes you have to put the good of the forum ahead of the individual.

[daydreamer]

in the interests of making this the world's longest thread and to bring up a point I touched on before: it would seem that all the info on this forum is free to view / read, whatever, without registration. Sort of makes those that register more honest than those who don't at least register first.

i know i read quite a few posts etc before bothering to register. If I hadn't been able to read it though, how would I know help was available? It sort of goes in circles. Now I've developed some what of an addiction to reading and posting on this forum, I've noticed new names everyday, some who have been registered from the beginning all chipping in on their favorite topics.

[Mark]

I believe you do have to register to view the Dumble section though. At least it use to be that way.