Big rehash - Strat into Dumble - what really works

[sepulchre]

Hmm.
I'm finding what V.K. and Tony are saying a bit disparaging. I play a Strat, can't afford a Paul (or any other decent HB guitar). And I'm about to build what will possibly be my last amp. I've been looking forward to those sweet Dumble tones. But not so with a Strat?
Hmm.

[Max]

What I am missing with the strat and tele is chimey, lively cleans, like my 65 SR, and a elastic, fat, singing OD. The strat and tele really aren't that enjoyable to play with this amp. They are good but not great into the FET input.

My LPs have more chime than my strat or tele through the clean side. This isn't the case with these guitars on many other amps. I am starting to feel that my Dclone is a humbucker only machine. I've made many changes, but none of them has changed the basic SC character of this amp.

In the last 30 years I tried a lot of different SC-guitars in combination with at least around 25 different original Dumble amps (probably more - but no time for counting right now) between 50W mono and 300W stereo. Here http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11906 you'll find clips and links to clips of different SC-guitars incl. different Strats in combination with original Dumble amps. So if you post some links here to some of these clips most similar to the clean, crunch and OD etc. tones you are looking for, then based on my personal experience I might be able to recommend one or more version(s) of the original Dumble amps in combination with one or more version(s) of the original Dumble cabinets, that IMO might be able to deliver the tones you hear when listening to the clips you think are most similar to what you like best. And then it might be possible to build replicas of the original amps and cabinets I recommend.

Cheers!

Max

[JazzGuitarGimp]

I'll take the Max challenge: strat with EMG active single coil pups & Robben Ford Talk To Your Daughter tone.....

[sepulchre]

This is the kind of sound, well one of the sounds I'm looking for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCGqgXQ8gqg

I know that's not a stock Strat but I think those are SCs nonetheless. Has LC only used one D in his career? This is from a long while back. Is it the same amp he uses today?

[vibratoking]

I believe LC's Valley Arts strat has EMG single coils. I heard there was an on-board preamp, but I don't know for sure. I should mention that LC is a helluva player and can make most rigs sound awesome, but I hear some nice characteristics in that video that I would not solely attribute to LC. I also don't hear what I consider strat tones in that video. Far from it IMO.

Max, I am not trying to copy some recorded sound so posting clips doesn't make sense for me. I have ONE Dclone amp - limited experience. As I mentioned, my amp has had many preamp and tonestack and PI configs. All of them have some 'magic' with my LPs, 335, SG HB equipped guitars. My nashville power tele has a little magic on the bridge pickup. It has good but not outstanding tones on the other SC pickups. My strats are relatively good but unspectacular. All my guitars, HB and SC, sound great through my Express, Rocket, Lonestar Special, SR, Twin, Mesa MarkIII, 5E3 deluxe, etc... So I am interested in what, at the electronic level, makes the strats so good with so many amps and so blase with the Dclone. I am aware of all the clips posted, schematics, layouts, etc... I should also say that my Fuchs ODS50 also loves HBs and is blase with SCs. By the way, I should mention that the SC pickups I have used are Fender 1972 strat SSS, Fralin Vintage and Vintage hots SSS strat, Fralin teles, Rio Grand SSS, Dimarzio Area 61.

Sepulchre - I don't think the Dclone amp you are about to build will be your last amp if you are going to use a strat only. That's just my experience and what I have heard from many others here, YMMV. My Dclone is so good with HB guitars, that the SCs hardly ever get plugged into it, plain and simple. And I am mainly a SC player. They just don't work well into my Dclone in all of its incarnations. You will have to find out for yourself.

Tag - I appreciate that you have experience with some real Dumbles and the Quinn, etc... You stated in this thread that your SCs sound great with those amps, yet I remember a recent post where you recently acquired a strat that finally sounded good through your Quinn or something else. I don't remember every detail, but I remember you raving that you finally found a strat that had some magic with the Dstyle amp(s). So the message I am getting from you on this is mixed, with all due respect. I understand that impressions change over time, but your comments are all fairly recent. Perhaps I am missing something?

Edit: Added recent post I refer to above:
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19768

I am not trying to discount the opinions of others or ignore helpful comments. I believe there is a solution to this at the electronic level, preamp design, tonestack, PI, power supply etc..., but I have not found it yet. I am quite sure some other amp designers, not just builders, have solved this problem and understand it from a design POV. I currently have limited time to devote to this, but I will keep working and report back what I find. What I really need to do is convince my boss to fund this project so that I can attack it on work time.

[Max]

... so posting clips doesn't make sense for me.

I see. In this case I can't recommend a configuration.

Cheers,

Max

[JazzGuitarGimp]

I guess I won't be taking the Max challenge. Thanks, Max.... Fer nuttin.

[Teleguy61]

We are always grateful for any contribution you may chose to make Max. Thank you.
Please also remember that Strats and Teles are very different guitars from each other, and are worlds apart from any HB equipped LP style.
There are many variables-output level, midrange peak, high end response, just for a start then adding full scale as opposed to short scale harmonics.
The SC guitars can be helped with a buffer/booster sometimes, and they are also not necessarily heavy distortion guitars. Clean with an edge, as Max and Tony say, is more their thing.
I have found my 100 watt HRM good with both Tele and Strat, but it takes messing around-no slam dunk. I'm more in the looking for an edge to the tone than fullout overdrive though.

[JazzGuitarGimp]

We are always grateful for any contribution you may chose to make Max.

We? Oh, that's funny! This guy must be kind of ROYALTY! LMFAO

[Aaron]

Actually, he is royalty. Dumble royalty😇

Personally, I'm glad to see Max is back.

[talbany]

I would have to say that my 2nd generation (ser #13 hybrid) 100w in OD with the mid boost on (in a band setting) is the best sounding OD Style amp that I own for singles..Still not like a Bucker but cranked up to where the output section is breathing is pretty sweet!!..especially for slide...The amp also sounds very good in clean with a tube screamer (style od pedal)
When I am using just singles I always grab this amp!!

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 75&start=0

Max...Good to see you still around!!.. which generation amp do you like best with Strats..If you don't mind?
Tony

[Max]

Please also remember that Strats and Teles are very different guitars from each other, and are worlds apart from any HB equipped LP style.

Indeed. Every guitar has its own personality - the pickups of course beeing a part of it. And the original Dumble amps I know don't "veil" the personality of a guitar or the personal playing style of a player. So of course the personality of a guitar and a player always is and stays present when using a Dumble amp live or for recordings.

In the "reference thread" IMO you'll find examples of clean and OD tones achieved with usual Strats and Teles without active preamps and EMG-PUs etc., too - Charly Bonat and Karl Ratzer e.g. both use "usual" 50ies, 60ies and 70ies Strats (Charly) and Teles (Karl).

And IMO you hear this when listening to these clips in the "reference thread" - AFAIK that's exactly what these two players like about the orignal Dumble amps: the "SC- tones" they like are still present and obvious in the OD tone of an OD-Special. And of course you hear that Karl's tone is different when using his Gibson instead of the Tele.

So IMO if someone should prefer his Les Paul, SG or ES in combination with whatever amp - why then using a Strat in combination with this amp? And if someone should prefer the ergonomics of a Strat, but should dislike the Strat sound in combination with whatever amp, then AFAIK today it might be possible to find a guitar with the ergonomics of a Strat but a tone more similar to a HB-guitar?

So I don't understand why there should be a need - at least from a practical point of view - to mod a Dumble amp, when a Marshall, Trainwreck, Boogie or whatever else amp a player likes in combination with his SC-guitars is available?

So IMO the talk about "Dumble amps aren't for Strats" might just be the result of the personal taste of players who simply dislike the tone of all or some of the SC-guitars these players are familiar with in combination with the Dumble amps they know and in combination with their personal playing style and attack etc. I personally know players with a heavy "SRV-like" touch who simply dislike Dumble OD amps (like SRV did, too) and prefer Trainwrecks or SSSs etc. e.g.

IMO Dumble amps are just Dumble amps and no "magic boxes" each one able to deliver every possible kind of tone someone can and might imagine (talbany: "The laws of physics are the same on your bench as they are on Mr Dumbles".)

But on the other hand I know not few players - including myself - who are completely happy with the OD sounds of an OD-Special in combination with some "usual" 60ies or 70ies Strats. And IMO different "usual" Strats may sound rather different in combination with Dumble amps anyway - because IMO these amps put forward the personality of every instrument and every player who plugs into an original Dumble amp. So when e.g. David Williams uses ODS #0075 for some recording, then his clean Strat-tone is of course different from the one of Steve Farris when using #0075. But of course I can only refer to original Dumble amps in regard to all this because I'm not familiar enough with replicas of Dumble amps.

[sepulchre]

Okay, after read through all the threads in the links here I'm more confused than ever. However, I might be back on track. I was going to give up on trying a D-style - expensive to build (for me) and the result could be, well, less than what I'm hoping for. But there are some clips that hold promise. My Strat is HSS, not a purist Strat, I know, but that may make it better for this application.

So, which designs have the Classic TS? A #124 or #102?

[Max]

... which designs have the Classic TS?

AFAIU this one: http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12872

Cheers,

Max

[sepulchre]

Ah! Then that's what I'll shoot for.

Thank you!