Steve Farris ODS #075

[tubelovin]

I really liked the tone on those Doug Doppler clips. Is it common for most models to have that type of OD?

I think I have finally been convinced to start a Dumble type build. I don't really like the usual RF/LC stuff but this amp would be a great place for me to go circuit wise. Does anyone have any specifics on that particular amp?

Thanks

[Structo]

No but the way you set up the amp, the way you play, the guitar you use, all have an effect on what you get out of it.
That's what makes them so versatile.
You can go from a clean jazzy neck pickup tone to an over saturated OD on the bridge and be at opposite sides of the sonic spectrum.

Remember, these amps have a lot of knobs, so you can change the tone around to suit your mood or style of music.
I've even heard a few guys do a respectable metal tone before on a ODS.

That was my attraction to the amps, sure I like Robben Ford as much as the next guy but I don't want to sound only like him.

I don't think you can go wrong with one of these amps if you are willing to devote some time to tweak or tune it to your likes.

[Max]

I really liked the tone on those Doug Doppler clips. Is it common for most models to have that type of OD?

To avoid misunderstandings: Can you describe a bit more in detail, what precisely you've meant by "that type of OD"? What precisely is it, that you like better in these videos than what you call the "usual RF/LC stuff"?

Perhaps we could use this example for an additional clarification:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He0sqy1NA34

Do you like the tone of Robben Ford in this "video" better, less, or just as much as the tone of the ODS in the Doug Doppler videos?

And if you like the tone in the Doppler videos better: Can you explain what is it, that you like better?

Does anyone have any specifics on that particular amp?

This amp in the Doug Doppler videos is a typical "4th generation" ODS built somewhere between approx. 1980 and approx. 1988. All these "4th generation" ODS amps have been built originally with a "classic" tone stack. After Alexander Dumble around 1988 had introduced the "5th generation" ODS ("MID" switch instead of "DEEP" switch) with the "skyline" tone stack, some of these 4th generation amps have been updated with such a "skyline" tone stack.

An example for these 4th generation "classic" amps, that have later been updated to "skyline" specs, is #0124.
#0124: http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 024#129024 and http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5719&start=0

Based on what kind of tone and response I hear in these videos, particulary when Doug Doppler demonstrates the function of the "deep" switch, I am rather sure, that this ODS in the Doug Doppler videos still has the "classic" tonestack.

Here http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 410#127410 you find some links to some schematics of ODS amps with a "classic" tonestack. But I am not sure, how "correct" these schematics are.

But I asked here http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 960#128960 and here http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 013#129013 concerning what is known to the members here in regard to the technical specs of these "classic" amps in general and this amp in the Doug Doppler videos.

So, after more answers to my questions have been posted, we will probably know more in regard to at least some of the more important "correct" technical specs of the "transition generation" and "4th generation" ODS with a "classic" tone stack in general and if - in the perception of the members here - the specimen in the Doug Doppler videos seems to be a "high plate" or "low plate" "classic" ODS.

Cheers,

Max

[CHIP]

Max,
I really liked the D. Doppler clips. I think that amp sounds like a high plate, non HRM. I'm really starting to favor the "classic" tone stack amps.

[Max]

Tony, Jelle, Odourboy, Chip and all,

OK, after some reading and thinking I (hope to) understand your posts. Now my problem in regard to Henry's amp in the Doug Doppler video is this:

I've played both kind of amps, "high plate" and "low plate" classics, and both for some longer period of time, but not one right after the other but always some years passed in between. Now as far as I remember there was a difference between both in regard to tone, response and harmonic content. But from the distance I remember this difference as not very big and of much practical importance.

The differences in regard to tone and response etc. between the different "skyline" amps I've played, I remember as perhaps even a bit larger, than the differences between these "high plate" and "low plate" classic amps.

The reason may be, that at that time I did not care a lot about the technical specs and subtle differences between these amps, but just used them for making music and perhaps just adjusted my playing, the settings of the controls and switches, effects, Dumblelator settings, guitar settings etc. in a way to have maximum fun with all of these different ODS.

This said, I remember the differences between these "low plate" and "high plate" classics to have been more or less in the same range as different tubes, speaker cabinets, cables, different Dumblelators in the loop etc..

Now, just by trying to remember and by taking into account what you explained in your posts, I still don't feel able to tell apart, if the amp in this Doug Doppler videos is a "high plate" or a "low plate" classic. Because of this I would like to ask you, if you can identify the variant ("low plate" or "high plate") by listening and perhaps explain from what you perceive, why you think what version it is?

Thanks again for your explanations in regard to the technical basics, very helpfull.

Cheers,

Max

[greiswig]

Max,

This is based on a sample size of 1, and in my own amp, and with very limited building experience, so it should be taken with a grain of salt.

In my D'Lite build, I sort of gradually went from a high plate version to a low plate version on both V1-V2. The sound difference I heard was not as subtle as I think you're describing here. If I were to try to describe it, the overdrive tone in particular went from sounding a little like Lou Gramm during the high-plate phase to more like Steve Perry in the low-plate version: the low plate version seems to have a cut that breaks through a dense mix better to my ear.

I could hear a definite change in character in this one amp. But being able to tell just from listening whether an amp is high plate or low plate...I wouldn't have a lot of confidence in my guess, frankly.

[talbany]

Max

70's 100K
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=8901886

124 Skyliner High Plate

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=9030530

124 Low Plate Skyliner
Actual clip of 124 clone posted by Gil OD only

http://www.ayanmusic.com/audio/Bossa_Jazz_100K_Clip.MP3

In OD the High plate has a thicker more complex slightly darker almost horn like quality
The low plate you get more of the crunch on the top,honky-er mids the tone is better focused, cuts through the mix better and wants to sustain a bit easier..Transition from clean to OD is more transparent w/low plate

Footnote
124 has 250k level vs the 100k in most as this helps fatten the tone a bit as well..

I know mine is not the real thing but still good enough for the example..

In the Doppler video it's kind of hard to tell in clean w/loop on and the quality of the recording.. The give away for me is the OD cuts and crunches.. verified when he says Marshall kinda quality (at his settings) about it would tell me it's a low plate..You wouldn't get that Marshall vibe in a High plate..I wouldn't anyway!!

Hope this Helps..

Tony

[Max]

The give away for me is the OD cuts and crunches.. verified when he says Marshall kinda quality (at his settings) about it would tell me it's a low plate..You wouldn't get that Marshall vibe in a High plate..

Tony,

this is an interesting observation. Still most or at least many guitar players are rather surprised, when they hear or read for the first time, that one of the 80ies recordings of one of their "heroes" has not been done with a Marshall, as they often assume, but with a Dumble ODS.

Brandon once has told, that Steve Lukather e. g. used his 2nd generation 50W Dumble ODS combo #048

http://homepage.mac.com/bill_jpn_morgan ... ukeods.jpg

for the "Rosanna" solo

http://www.mtv.com/videos/toto/156188/rosanna.jhtml

and for the rhythm tracks on Michael Jackson’s "Beat It"

http://www.mtv.com/videos/michael-jacks ... t-it.jhtml

And he told, that Eddie van Halen too used a Dumble ODS for his "Beat It" solo.

BTW: Does someone know, if Eddie van Halen used Steve Lukather’s ODS for the "Beat It" solo (as it was in the studio anyway?), or another one?

When Andy Brauer sold ODS #048 some years ago, the item description said AFAIR, that Alexander did update #048 around 1980 to best suit the needs of Steve Lukather ( perhaps just to these "low plate classic" specs we are talking about here – dernier cri in Dumbleland at that time?).

Four more examples for Steve Lukather’s early 80ies tone with his ODS #048:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQv81IrAzXs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2KMKtzA9rg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnbVWi5BAUI

and last but not least

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5Th99XQzbs

"Luke's tone, a single 12 Dumble through a tube screamer and space echo is amazing. All you need to do is listen to the opening track, Bomp Me, to hear what a special disc this is."

source: http://www.stevelukather.net/Review.aspx?id=80

Many of the "pre-classic" and "classic" 70ies and 80ies ODS are on countless recordings, as they have been used by some of the most busy session players like Lukather, Farris, Rios, Vito, and many others that come to mind.

And IMO it is a perfect demonstration of their quality as great and versatile musical instruments, that you will have a hard time to find out e. g. on which of the Madonna and Jackson songs precisely, David Williams used the Farris amp.

I have a lot of sympathy and respect for all these great "session players" like the late David Williams or Carlos Rios, who have the virtue to always place the "voice" of their guitars, amps and other gear perfectly into different musical environments and do their very best to showcase a song instead of ever and only fighting for "Guitar Hero" points, regardless what kind of musical idea they are a part of on stage or in the studio (btw: I am not a purist and a fan of games like "Guitar Hero" and "Rock Band").

Cheers,

Max

[nix]

And he told, that Eddie van Halen too used a Dumble ODS for his "Beat It" solo.

BTW: Does someone know, if Eddie van Halen used Steve Lukather’s ODS for the "Beat It" solo (as it was in the studio anyway?), or another one?



Max

Eddie used a Paul Rivera-modded Marshall for the 'Beat It' solo. This according to a couple of friends that would know. Also, tonally, that solo tone has some obvious Marshall markers in it, with a certain lack of the master-volume amp pick attack.

It would be funny if Luke used his Dumble on Rosanna, as that was always a solo (and tone) of his that I pointed to as really good.

[Max]

And he told, that Eddie van Halen too used a Dumble ODS for his "Beat It" solo.

BTW: Does someone know, if Eddie van Halen used Steve Lukather’s ODS for the "Beat It" solo (as it was in the studio anyway?), or another one?



Max

Eddie used a Paul Rivera-modded Marshall for the 'Beat It' solo. This according to a couple of friends that would know.

Are you sure? I ask, as for usual Brandon is a very trustworthy source?

All the best,

Max

[dogears]

I have a direct line to EVH. I just emailed for the answer. We will see.....

And he told, that Eddie van Halen too used a Dumble ODS for his "Beat It" solo.

BTW: Does someone know, if Eddie van Halen used Steve Lukather’s ODS for the "Beat It" solo (as it was in the studio anyway?), or another one?



Max

Eddie used a Paul Rivera-modded Marshall for the 'Beat It' solo. This according to a couple of friends that would know.

Are you sure? I ask, as for usual Brandon is a very trustworthy source?

All the best,

Max

[nix]

And he told, that Eddie van Halen too used a Dumble ODS for his "Beat It" solo.

BTW: Does someone know, if Eddie van Halen used Steve Lukather’s ODS for the "Beat It" solo (as it was in the studio anyway?), or another one?



Max

Eddie used a Paul Rivera-modded Marshall for the 'Beat It' solo. This according to a couple of friends that would know.

Are you sure? I ask, as for usual Brandon is a very trustworthy source?

All the best,

Max

I wasn't there, but according to Andy Brauer (whom I don't know; he did, however rent out the amp for the session) as well as others that shall remain nameless (friends of mine who would also know), it was a Rivera-modded Marshall. This isn't really a secret, by the way. Fairly common knowledge confirmed by a few inside guys.
Brandon may have been there, so that would certainly trump what I've been told by people who were as well.
One of them (coincidentally) was a sort of 'herald' for Dumble in the early days, introducing him to (and talking him up; remember, there was a time when no one knew who Dumble was) to a few of his early bigger-name clients.

[tubelovin]

Max,

The RF clip you provided was good but I do like Doug's clips better. It's a rather hard comparison because of their different playing styles but to me Doug's clips seem to have more sing to them and obviously more crunch.

I really like the clean tone as well, it sounds very much like my twin reverb, but my twin definitely can't scream like that.

FWIW I also really dig Gregors clips with his #94 and les Paul.

[talbany]

I met Lonnie Totman EVH/CC Deville Guitar/Amp tech couple months ago at an after party show in Baltimore.. I asked if the amp he used on the Beat it sessions was a Dumble and he said he thought it was..Exact words yeah sounds familiar.. Also Eddie did that solo as a favor to Quincy Jones and got paid a couple 6 packs for doing it.. Nice guy huh!!..

Tony

[Zippy]

Also Eddie did that solo as a favor to Quincy Jones and got paid a couple 6 packs for doing it.. Nice guy huh!!..

Tony

Royalties = beer for life!