Which is the Dumble

[Max]

May I ask all those who posted something like "I prefer #X" or "I perceived #X as being softer" etc., if these statements should imply that you perceive "#X" as being the recording of the Dumble?
Or did you understand Mac Daddy's question in the sense of "Wich one do you like better?" and not in the sense of "Wich one is the Dumble?"
Or did you understand Mac Daddy's question in the sense of "Which one is the Dumble?", but because you are not sure about this, you decided to use his question at least as an opportunity to tell us all something about your personal preferences concerning these two recordings?
Perhaps I am still a bit at a loss concerning what may be the topic of this thread? Can Mac Daddy or someone else perhaps explain what all this is about?

Cheers,

Max

[erwin_ve]

Max I have no clue, I only can tell what I like. So yes that should be my guess.
Also as Scott mentioned; these are lofi clips and details in sound are gone.

But what is your opinion on this thread; Should we ignore it?

[markusw]

Hi Max,

I think it's a nice riddle, nothing more (even if the clips are lofi).
If it turns out that #2 (which I prefer) is not the Dumble I won't have any sleepless nights
Would love to hear another couple of blinded clips in better quality though

Peace,

Markus

[martin manning]

I think the point Mac Daddy is trying to make is that it really isn't possible to tell, and that even the opinions of experts will be divided. Given the individual tuning applied to each serial number for specific players and the gear that they used at the time, this should not be a surprise. The only possible agreement is that they both have the essential characteristics of D amp tone and, as much as can be discerned given the recording quality, are pleasing to people who admire that tone.

I'll add that we don't know if the tone of the original has changed in some way over time due to deterioration of the components, or if it is being driven by a guitar or played though speakers for which it was not intended.

[Max]

I think the point Mac Daddy is trying to make is that it really isn't possible to tell, and that even the opinions of experts will be divided

Even when evaluating a "good clip" it may be impossible - even for the experts - to distinguish a Marshall, as an example, from a Dumble.

Some here may perhaps still remember the Gear Page thread "TAG’s Dumble Part II".

In post #106 of this thread Brandon posted that Eddie van Halen had used a Dumble for his solo on Michael Jackson’s "Beat It": http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpo ... tcount=106

Many of the experts have been sitting around the same table and posted regularly in this thread. And not one of them posted "Nonsense!" after Brandon had posted this.

Then our member nix posted in the #075 thread here at ampgarage that this is wrong and that EVH did not use a Dumble but "a Paul Rivera-modded Marshall" for his "Beat it" solo: http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 203#129203

Again all experts have been sitting around the same table. Again not one of them could tell just by listening if it is a Rivera modded Marshall or a Dumble what they hear.

Then Scott kindly did offer to call EVH and ask him which amp he had used for his "Beat-It" solo. EVH's answer: neither a Dumble nor a Rivera modded Marshall, but: "His main old Marshall Plexi Super Lead": http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 284#129284

And I still remember many other "good clips" where even the experts have not been sure if they hear a Dumble or not. One more example:

Perhaps you still remember that someone here (Brandon?) once has told that RF did not use his Dumble on the TTYD track of the TTYD album but a Rivera AFAIR. RF himself tells in the TTYD Guitar Player interview that he used his Dumble for all the tracks with only one exception: Getaway. And no one even of the experts could and still can tell for sure just by listening to the "clip" if it is a Rivera or – as Robben himself tells it - his Dumble.

But everyone can easily check himself how difficult or easy it is to recognize a Dumble only by listening to a guitar track on a record: All here know the usual "Dumble player list". Now take this tool http://www.discogs.com/ to check for "Dumble tracks" (and not for youtube live clips where you can see the amp!) just by listening to the guitar tone on the track and without knowing from some interview etc. On what tracks do you hear Dean Parks' Dumble for an example, and without any personal doubt? On what tracks are you completely sure to hear the SSS of Colin James, and without knowing from some interview or from other sources?

And this kind of "hard check" would be of course a great practical help for the continuation of the "Dumble reference thread", too.

Let me add this: A guitar player I know used a Dumble ODS combo for some time for his live gigs, too. And all guitarists in the audiance went always Ah! and Oh! Then he retired the Dumble and began to use a Music Man (SS!) combo amp for his live gigs that looked rather similar to his ODS combo. And all guitarists in the audiance, knowing him as a Dumble player, still went Ah! and Oh! about his great "Dumble tone".

But don't take me wrong: Someone listening to the recorded result on a CD IMO may perhaps not perceive a big difference in tone between amp A and B. But for the player himself playing amp A or B may perhaps make a big difference in the moment he plays, and may it only be that he is more used to the sound and feel of one of them.

A nice day to all here,

Max

[Mr Dumble]

After listening through my home monitors, # 2 is the Dumble for sure. It has the low mids and girth. There is no doubt, #2 is the Dumble. #1 is thin and bright in comparison. I like the Dumble.

[dogears]

Wow Tag! We agree on something!

After listening through my home monitors, # 2 is the Dumble for sure. It has the low mids and girth. There is no doubt, #2 is the Dumble. #1 is thin and bright in comparison. I like the Dumble.

[Max]

There is no doubt, #2 is the Dumble.

You should perhaps not confuse the fact that you don't have doubts with the fact that "There is no doubt".

Obviously "there is...doubt", just count the votes.

If you compare the clips with the classic prejudices how Dumble amps sound, the second clip may perhaps be a bit more similar to these prejudices. But all the Dumble amps I have played I could adjust to sound very very different from these classical prejudices (fat, smooth and whatever else), and this kind of versatility is what I like a lot. If you play in unision in a dense brass mix it is IMO not a very clever idea in every musical context to adjust your Dumble for the "horn" thing (the "horns" may be already there and on the payroll). But everyone as he likes best of course.

In regard to the question. "Which is the Dumble?" I must admit this - and please excuse that this perhaps may sound harsh now and don't take it personal as it is not meant this way, it is just the way I perceive it:

If I would sit in the control room with whatever Dumble ODS in the recording booth and the monitors would produce tones like those my headphones transport to my ears while listening to Mac Daddy’s clips, I would at once call a service tech to check if the amp or some piece of recording gear isn't at the brink of a nervous breakdown.

Have fun,

Max

[Mr Dumble]

There is no doubt, #2 is the Dumble.[/quote]

You should perhaps not confuse the fact that you don't have doubts with the fact that "There is no doubt".

Obviously "there is...doubt", just count the votes.

Sorry Dude. I speak for myself only. Show me where in my post I said "No one has any doubts". You cant. I owned 183 and know how it sounds. There is no doubt,#2 is the Dumble. It has all the lower mids that "most" players seem to like in Dumbles. (Again, vintage Ford, Carlton, Landreth etc etc)

But all the Dumble amps I have played I could adjust to sound very very different from these classical prejudices (fat, smooth and whatever else), and this kind of versatility is what I like a lot.

Sure, who said anything about dialing them in to sound totally different? We are judging on the two clips alone. That seems very obvious to me. Me thinks you are taking this WAY to seriously.

If I would sit in the control room with whatever Dumble ODS in the recording booth and the monitors would produce tones like those my headphones transport to my ears while listening to Mac Daddy’s clips, I would at once call a service tech to check if the amp or some piece of recording gear isn't at the brink of a nervous breakdown.

Not me, I LOVE it!!

[talbany]

A friend once told me that MP3 sound clips are like staring at a picture of a Beautiful women..or in this case 2 women(For us guy's)..We all see things different..Take this one for example!! One thing we all know about is you never know if you want to keep it around unitil you get her home and try her out..I thought there was some truth to that..

Sure would like to give this one a whril..IMHO MP3'clips not the full picture..

Be well All!!...Tony

[Structo]

MMmmmm, bubble butt.

[martin manning]

I owned 183 and know how it sounds.

Then you should recuse yourself from the game and refrain from making any comment ;^)

[Mr Dumble]

I owned 183 and know how it sounds.

Then you should recuse yourself from the game and refrain from making any comment ;^)

No way. TKT. B it is. Its all in the GIRTH!!

[SuperReverb2]

Gotta vote #1.

[Mac Daddy]

#2 is 183
Just plug in and play