The Les Paul Dilemma

[dartanion]

I love my PRS, Strat, and ES330TDC; but a LP has a quite different tone to me than my PRS.

If anyone knows of a 68-72 or maybe later LP, let me know. Even if it's a hack job or basket case.

I have played plenty of new LPs, but the ones I like are as expensive as some vintage stuff.

[skeezbo]

I have seen some recent production goldtops on the web (musician's friend I think) that have the mini humbuckers like the early '70s Deluxes. A set of Lollar p-90s would probably convert one of those into a much better guitar for cheaper dough than one of those sandwich-body ones from the late '60s or early '70s. A one-piece body one will cost way more than I would pay.
The custom shop '56 reissue would be a great choice, too, with p-90s and the tune-o-matic bridge.
A good friend of mine has a '54 reissue with p-90s and the wraparound bridge, and it is great, better than the '68 I had that unfortunately had been routed for humbuckers or even the real '55 I had years ago that sounded unreal but wouldn't stay in tune (or probably wouldn't get in tune) and broke strings continually. My buddy with the R54 also has a flametop reissue with real PAFs that sits in his closet. The p-90 R54 has become his main axe.
If the Japanese goltops that show up on ebay are similar to the Epiphone Elitists in quality they might be a great buy, but how will you know until you get your hands on one of them? I'd stick with a recent production American guitar for value and quality.
P-90s rule
(unless you have a good tele)
Lou

[philmanatee]

I really dug my 79 deluxe with mini humbuckers it was my main for quite a while. I ended up trading it for a 335, and always wanted to get another lp. I got lucky and got a 76 3 pickup custom which needed electronics. It was expensive but I was able to put the high orders of my choice in it. Les Pauls have a certain sound that is great for recording. That being said, I've played more les pauls that I don't like than ones that I do. Phil

[Ears]

I was reverently shown a 50th anniversary gold top three days ago in the rear of a store. Only 470 or so (or was it 170 or so) have been built and it was the only one in this country.
Was a very nice guitar and priced at NZ$15,500. I doubt if it will ever be heard inside a bar or club.
But most new Gibby Lps I've seen IMO don't live up to the asking price tag, especially in regard to the attention to detail on the craftsmanship side. (Oops before the protests, remember it's only my opinion).
I wonder why someone would profess to want a LP really badly but then admit that just about everyone he has ever tried wasn't up to expectation. Occam's razor might suggest that the LP is not really the guitar for you! <smile>.

[moj067]

Collings is making some fine solid bodies in the Les Paul body type as well as 335 style guitars. Anyway there are lots of options available through some great builders.

[dartanion]

I wonder why someone would profess to want a LP really badly but then admit that just about everyone he has ever tried wasn't up to expectation. Occam's razor might suggest that the LP is not really the guitar for you! <smile>.

Well, the same argument could be made over Strats. I searched long and hard to find the right strat. Owned a couple then found "The One" after a few years of searching. I guess I'm really not a strat guy either then

Thus starts my LP search once again. I stopped after I bought my PRS, but now want to add LP tones to my stash. Preferably P90 Goldtop tones

I have gotten a lot of advice, but it sounds like the 54 and 56 RI would be the way to go. However, I've come across a few vintage ones that look promising. The problem is it's going to be hard to play them over the internet or phone.

[billv]

Dart, if you haven't considered it already, another option is a standard HB Paul with Harmonic Design Z-90s. I'm going that route with mine. Don't quite know about the looks - covers may fix that.

[dartanion]

I haven't decided what to do yet....

[smokin' tone]

I finally got the No. 1 guitar, and it's a Greco with P90's.... it s**ts all over the two Gibsons.

Shhhhhhh. Don't let the secret out man. Prices will go up.

[BluzMike]

Vintage: Open to spending a bit more here for the right guitar. I don't want a showcase guitar. I want a player that may have battle scars.
.[/quote]

Try to find a really good '52 goldtop in player's condition, but with its orig. soapbars. Conversions to wrap arounds usually sound better than those to sanded down ABR-1s and stop tailpieces. Pro nitro refins are more affordable than orig. finishes. Prices have come down significantly for those early LPs lately.

Expect the P90ies to be microphonic, but to sound killer. Potting them takes much of their tone away, just as with Tele pickups.

Good luck!

[muchxs]

I've been meaning to build a "Les Tele" for a while now. With all the great repro (Fender) necks available I'd start with one of those because I can't build one for what they sell for. For a Gibson feel I'd start with a 24 3/4" scale length. I have some nice mahogany so I'd chamber the snot out of it and cap it with curly ROCK maple. Most of the curly maple we see today is western broadleaf maple, it ISN'T real rock maple. Rock maple has tone, depth and transparency soft maple can't touch. Before you snivel about chambered bodies consider that for all practical purposes an ES335 is a chambered body. Done correctly you get resonance and sustain, done incorrectly you get my '62 Silvertone and that's not all bad, either. I'd stick a P90 in there, why not?!

Of course if it absolutely must say "Gibson" on the head it's gonna cost ya. If I had a wad of cash I'd just throw down on a real one from the mid-'50s. They're cheap compared to a sunburst, yeah, that's it... let's all adjust our prerspective so that a guitar that costs as much as an Escalade is "inexpensive"!!

Or drop $20k plus on a nice original Les Paul Junior.

[RJ Guitars]

Dart,

Check out the "Orville by Gibson" Guitars on EBAY.... Some are great & some aren't. They are built in Japan under the Gibson License... some say they were the Epiphone Master-Built Series before there was a Master-Built series... I also go +1 on the old Tokai stuff. Best Strat I ever played was a Tokai.

I myself am playing a 2003 Gibson Les Paul Standard... I think it's quite sweet... never had a guitar with better tone and it stays in tune better than anything I've ever owned... The down side is that it is stinkin' heavy...

Next axe for me - the ES339 - hoping for that Les Paul tone along with a little more hollow body feedback and easy on the shoulders...

Also I've been playing a G&L Tele with two P-90's in it... it's quite nice although I think my Les Paul sounds better...

rj

[Buschman]

I have a 1986 that I play sometimes. I bought it cheap with the wrong pickups in it and the finish was off of the back of the neck-SWEET. I always hated the gummy feel of a Les Paul neck. Sold the EMG & put t buckers in it.
Be patient & try to find something like that. If you really have more to spend then buy what you want, they aren't going down in price. The Pre Historic stuff look real good to me. I also love the way that a Classic plays, I am not a fat neck guy.

[dartanion]

I have been keeping an eye out for LPs on ebay. Anyone know much about the R2, R4, and R6s?

[paulster]

I have been keeping an eye out for LPs on ebay. Anyone know much about the R2, R4, and R6s?

The basic difference between the three is the tailpiece. All three have P90s.

R2s (1952 reissues) have a trapeze tailpiece and, if they're a correct replica (I can't remember and the Way Back Machine doesn't want to connect to Gibson), should have a shallower neck angle and the strings under-wrapped rather than over-wrapped to duplicate Gibson's original misinterpretation of Les Paul's specs. You really don't want one of these anyway as the trapeze will knock the entire guitar out of tune as soon as it gets a mild sideswipe. And if the strings are under-wrapped then you can't palm mute either.

R4s (1954 reissues) have a non-compensated wraparound tailpiece and the same neck angle as later guitars. These will be more like your PRS.

R6s (1956 reissues) change the wraparound tailpiece for the more familiar tune-o-matic bridge and stop tailpiece. These are very similar to the humbucker guitars with the exception of the pickups.

The necks are likely to be massive on the R2s to R8s, slightly more manageable on the R9s and then much slimmer (in general) on the R0s.

They're all way bigger than the regular Les Paul Standard necks, even if you choose the 50s profile.

Get yourself signed up at the Les Paul Forum and do a bit of reading over there. There's a forum dedicated to the Historic Reissues so you've got a good chance of getting some good information just by a selective search.