2x6L6 & 2x6V6 with Hi/Low Power Switch Possibilities

[Toppscore]

I've a technical theory question regarding possibilities towards achieving better
"Low Volume" amp results by adding a "Hi/Low" "100w/50w" power switch.

I've read and heard that the Hi/Low switches installed within a variety of
Fender amps, really do not make much overall difference at lowering
the volume when switching down to 50w.

What about this idea . . . . . .
Instead of four 6L6 power tubes, make it two 6L6 tubes and two 6V6 tubes?
Will this four tube combination, if biased correctly, work well at 100w?
Maybe even produce different sounds/tones?


Then, if this tube combination works, add a 50% switch.
When switched to "LOW", have only the 6V6 power tubes in use
with the goal of less volume output than with 6L6 tubes.


Anybody ever thought of this?
Or tried it?
Any suggestions?
Any success?

What do you think?

[xtian]

I don't know the answer to your question. And I'm wondering why you're calling it an "impedance" switch.

Am I helping now?

[ToneMerc]

This should be in the Technical Section as well

TM

[Toppscore]

Sorry. I meant "Power Switch".
My Fender ToneMaster has the "impedance switch".
I changed the original post text.

I have Fender 100w amps. The reason for this Fender section.
I can easily change forum sections to technical if requested.

Soon, will get a Dumble clone and a Trainwreck clone.
So, wondering about what is possible with 100w amps.

Why have a 100w amp if there are minimal places to crank it?
So, seeking a better Hi/Low circuit that actually reduces volume by 50%
would be great . . . . . if possible.

[rdjones]

I had the Fender 75 for a while.
It had the low power switch that dropped down to "about" 15W.
That setting was very useful.

I also gigged with a MusicMan 100W.
That amp has a low power setting that was totally pointless, I could never tell much if any volume drop at the so-called low power.
I modified that amp to lower the wattage level of the low power setting which did the trick.
I pretty much used the low setting all the time after the mod, it was probably around 12-15W.

The reason this happens is the way the human ear works, actually all the senses operate with a somewhat logarithmic response curve.

rd

[rdjones]

Why have a 100w amp if there are minimal places to crank it?
So, seeking a better Hi/Low circuit that actually reduces volume by 50%
would be great . . . . . if possible.

To get a perceived half loudness volume you will need 25% or less wattage.
A 25W amp will sound about half a loud as a 100W amp, all other things being equal.

I've always thought that more than 50W goes to waste for a guitar amp, but that's just me ...

reddog Steve

[rdjones]

What about this idea . . . . . .
Instead of four 6L6 power tubes, make it two 6L6 tubes and two 6V6 tubes?
Will this four tube combination, if biased correctly, work well at 100w?
Maybe even produce different sounds/tones?

Then, if this tube combination works, add a 50% switch.
When switched to "LOW", have only the 6V6 power tubes in use
with the goal of less volume output than with 6L6 tubes.

You are going to have a hard time getting the two tube types to play nice together at the same time but it can be done.
You won't have a total of 100W, maybe 65-75W at most.
The two types will also develop their best sound at different supply voltages and 6V6s don't withstand nearly the B+ that (good) 6L6 types will.

There's a whole lot of easier ways to do this such as attenuation, VVR, master volumes or better yet just get an amp with the power level you need
How often do you really need 100W ?

rd

[Toppscore]

Why have a 100w amp if there are minimal places to crank it? So, seeking a better Hi/Low circuit that actually reduces volume by 50% would be great . . . . . if possible.

To get a perceived half loudness volume you will need 25% or less wattage.
A 25W amp will sound about half a loud as a 100W amp, all other things being equal. I've always thought that more than 50W goes to waste for a guitar amp, but that's just me ... reddog Steve

Thank you Steve. This is good to know.
Maybe amp suppliers should think 100w switchable to
an attenuated 50w that = 25w.

Otherwise, some work better than others.
Much appreciated. Toppscore

[Toppscore]

I had the Fender 75 for a while.
It had the low power switch that dropped down to "about" 15W.
That setting was very useful.

The reason this happens is the way the human ear works, actually all the senses operate with a somewhat logarithmic response curve. rd

Thanks again. The Fender-75 is a pre-Paul Rivera amp
designed by the Ed Jahns design group at Fender, I believe.
I've had my eye on those for some time,
but have too many other amps to work with.
I'd love to work in a vintage amp shop

[Toppscore]

You are going to have a hard time getting the two tube types to play nice together at the same time but it can be done.
You won't have a total of 100W, maybe 65-75W at most.
The two types will also develop their best sound at different supply voltages and 6V6s don't withstand nearly the B+ that (good) 6L6 types will.
There's a whole lot of easier ways to do this such as attenuation, VVR, master volumes or better yet just get an amp with the power level you need How often do you really need 100W ? rd

No Master Volume amps in my life.


Guess my Weber Mass 200w is the easiest way to accomplish the goal ~
no mods involved and a "for-sure" ability to manage the sound/volume.


I'm all ears for anyother options
PLMK.
Thanks

[martin manning]

A 100W ODS, a master volume amp, sounds great at low volume. Maybe even better than a 50W ODS.

[rdjones]

A 100W ODS, a master volume amp, sounds great at low volume. Maybe even better than a 50W ODS.

I've also heard guys make a similar statement about Marshalls.
The 100W sounds better than a 50W.

My theory is that the four tubes have a tendency to even out any variation among the tubes.
So even if you had mismatched tubes in a four hole, they would behave more like a matched pair.
It makes sense if that's the sound you prefer.
I think I prefer the sound of certain 70's 50W Marshall models. ;->

rd

[MCK]

A number of builders have designs which run 4 tubes in fixed bias config and then switch to running only 2 out of 4 in cathode bias. RedPlate CosmicDust, MagicDust series and perhaps some others. This might be an option to pursue.

[Homebelly]

A 100W ODS, a master volume amp, sounds great at low volume. Maybe even better than a 50W ODS.

I've also heard guys make a similar statement about Marshalls.
The 100W sounds better than a 50W.


rd

I'm one of those people.
Though, for me it isn't about loud, a 100 isn't much louder than a 50.
Its just that there seems to be more of everything from a tonal perspective as well as a feel perspective. I much prefer the response and interaction i get between guitar and amp from a 100 watt plexi.

Having said that.. i also love the tone of my star and a JTM45 that has been bridged and has the volumes set at between quarter too and quater past..

[Lynxtrap]

To get a perceived half loudness volume you will need 25% or less wattage.
A 25W amp will sound about half a loud as a 100W amp, all other things being equal.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think 1/10 wattage equals half the percieved loudness. So a 10W amp sounds half as loud as a 100W amp.
All other things being equal, etc.