Dumble does Guns and Roses? yes! ;-)

[M Fowler]

massygt6,

So this amp is a standard 101HRM version, except for the voltages than are significantly lower that usual you previously wrote

[EaNot]

Here is this the most interesting:

V1 and V2 values has some mods, that I can tell you, as said before, next time I will open the amp.

[massygt6]

ok guys, let me explain something, as I try some mods day by day, is difficult to have the situation updated to the correct specs
ACTUALLY the amp has:

1)BLUESMASTER tonestack

2)SKYLINER P.I.

3)390k/33pF input for the OD

4)130k/150k on V1

5)180k/220k on V2

6)LNFB on V1

7)190pF snubbers on V2 (but I'm planning to reduce or remove them)

8)about 180v on V1 and a little more on V2 (can't remember exactly, but
something in the 190v ballpark)

9)410v on power tubes, bias about 38-40mA

10)first filter with 2X300uF 400V caps instead of 220uF

11)10H choke

The transformers are custom built by a very skilled guy here in Italy and, thelower voltages are obtained by simply using a 240V primary instead of the 220v we've here (and it's even less sometimes).
I can't remember the way the trimmers are set (the amp is in the shell now), no secret at all, but it's something usual I guess, mids with a slight scoop, low on bass and about half way on the treble.
About that, I'd liketo ask you a question...my BASS trimmer on the HRM board its acting more like a switch...it's a sort of ON-OFF setting, from a very low bass content, to a full boost...guess that it's not normal!
Hope this will clarify a little.

[EaNot]

massygt6, many thanks!

my BASS trimmer on the HRM board its acting more like a switch...it's a sort of ON-OFF setting, from a very low bass content, to a full boost...guess that it's not normal!

You use the linear trimmer (B). Needs logarithmic potentiometer (A).

[erwin_ve]

.
About that, I'd liketo ask you a question...my BASS trimmer on the HRM board its acting more like a switch...it's a sort of ON-OFF setting, from a very low bass content, to a full boost...guess that it's not normal!
Hope this will clarify a little.

Yes my bass trimmer is doing the same. However I can still hear difference when turning the trimmer up after the "switch"point. Some people do take a lower value bass trimmer for fine tuning.

[massygt6]

massygt6, many thanks!

my BASS trimmer on the HRM board its acting more like a switch...it's a sort of ON-OFF setting, from a very low bass content, to a full boost...guess that it's not normal!

You use the linear trimmer (B). Needs logarithmic potentiometer (A).

thanks! I'll try that...

Yes my bass trimmer is doing the same. However I can still hear difference when turning the trimmer up after the "switch"point. Some people do take a lower value bass trimmer for fine tuning.

Oh, so it's a common behaviour in HRM designs...actually I've a 250k trimmer if I'm not wrong...

[stelligan]

That is a bad ass wah clip! loved it.....

[Max]

Dumble does Guns and Roses? yes!

You bet!

Based on my own experience IMO at least the original 4th generation "classic" Dumble ODS amps do the real "Heavy" stuff as well as Blues or Jazz or Country or classic Rock. As you will perhaps know many of the original 4th generation Dumble ODS amps have been ordered and used by studio players who have no use for a one trick pony. But of course you have to know how to set them up for some "Heavy" tones.

Here an original 4th generation "classic" ODS goes "Heavy" with a 7-string (starting from around 5:20): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qvMwCte8TE

If you should like these tones then you'll find an explanation how to dial them in in the first minutes of this video and perhaps you’ll get an impression why the "deep" switch is called the "deep" switch, too.

And BTW: What you hear in this video is just the beginning of the "shred-tones" of such a 4th generation "classic" ODS and not the end of its gain realm. Believe me! This is one of the reasons why I am a fan of the "classic" ODS amps with a "deep" switch. Really versatile amps they are IMO. I have lots of fun playing one of these "classic" ODS amp in its "high gain mode" with an active Bartolini ES-1 at the bridge as an example. And if you'll go for "shred" then don’t forget:

"The secret control on the Overdrive's panel section is the ratio control, which controls how much overdrive is fed back into the circuit. If you turn that up, it's Rock City." (Alexander Dumble in Guitar Player Magazine – September 1985).

Just try this with a 4th generation "classic" and you’ll perhaps understand what Alexander is talking about (in 1985 the "skyline" amps had not yet arrived in Dumbleland).

If you should perhaps like such tones as much as me and you should perhaps like to build such a 4th generation "classic" ODS with a "deep" switch, then by Tony’s (talbany) generosity here now is the layout of such an amp: http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 327#137327

What I like about the high gain tone of these 4th generation "classic" amps is the fact that you get all the gain without loosing dynamic response and articulation as is demonstrated to some extent in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGPxrt7d6xk

And if after some shredding time you should like to dial in some different stuff, you will probably be happy that this shredder has some more colours to offer. Here is such a 4th generation "classic" ODS dialled in for a bit more "usual" Dumble ODS tone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qiz30Hzhta4

Have fun!

Max

[Colossal]

That is a bad ass wah clip! loved it.....

Dave, yes, that is my favorite clip which clearly demonstrates the raw gain on tap, but that it also stays defined and articulate and doesn't become a flat-sounding chainsaw.

Here an original 4th generation "classic" ODS goes "Heavy" with a 7-string (starting from around 5:20): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qvMwCte8TE

Thanks for posting that link Max. I actually just found that one last week. The sound isn't great but gets the point across.

If you should like these tones then you'll find an explanation how to dial them in in the first minutes of this video and perhaps you’ll get an impression why the "deep" switch is called the "deep" switch, too.

Max, what do you think about having both the Mid-Boost and Deep switches?

"The secret control on the Overdrive's panel section is the ratio control, which controls how much overdrive is fed back into the circuit. If you turn that up, it's Rock City." (Alexander Dumble in Guitar Player Magazine – September 1985).

I am still a bit confused by the OD stage and the differences between generations. Is the Ratio a separate function? I thought this became the Level, which is a master volume for the OD stage? (please forgive me as I am still learning all of the Dumble history). So we have Drive, Ratio, and Level...

What I like about the high gain tone of these 4th generation "classic" amps is the fact that you get all the gain without loosing dynamic response and articulation as is demonstrated to some extent in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGPxrt7d6xk

Yes! This is what I really like about Massygt6's amp. He is achieving incredible levels of gain with fantastic distortion and it does not become a muddy or flat sounding chainsaw, but maintains a high level of definition and clarity. I love that you can get wonderful legato and it sounds fluid and liquidy. Killer tone!

Thanks for your comments Max.

[talbany]

Max, what do you think about having both the Mid-Boost and Deep switches?

Colossal
I know this was addressed to Max but I'll throw my coin in the pond.. I added both mid boost and Deep to my 2nd Generation 100w hybrid ..IMHO they do serve there purpose used one at a time.. I do find myself using the deep switch more on this amp than any of my Skyliners.. If you activate both together you get a much smaller mid range boost which maybe you find useful so IMHO are a kind of contradiction..
BTW.. I like mid boost option on my 2nd gen hybrid amp especially in OD

Hope This Helps!!

Tony

[Colossal]

Max, what do you think about having both the Mid-Boost and Deep switches?

Colossal
I know this was addressed to Max but I'll throw my coin in the pond.. I added both mid boost and Deep to my 2nd Generation 100w hybrid ..IMHO they do serve there purpose used one at a time.. I do find myself using the deep switch more on this amp than any of my Skyliners.. If you activate both together you get a much smaller mid range boost which maybe you find useful so IMHO are a kind of contradiction..
BTW.. I like mid boost option on my 2nd gen hybrid amp especially in OD

Hope This Helps!!

Tony

Tony, this is excellent and thanks for the reply. This is exactly the kind of specificity I was looking for. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around all of the options and what is used for what. I do like a mid-prominent sound, but that comes from my experience playing Marshally amps. That is very interesting to know about the interaction of Mid and Deep negating the mid-boost somewhat; I hadn't thought about that in terms of how the two are working together in the circuit!

Best regards,
Dave

[Bob-I]

I'd liketo ask you a question...my BASS trimmer on the HRM board its acting more like a switch...it's a sort of ON-OFF setting, from a very low bass content, to a full boost...guess that it's not normal!
Hope this will clarify a little.

That's pretty typical, however where it may not seem to make a difference after it "switches on" there is some interaction between the controls. Scott was very careful to measure my HRM settings to values he knows to be good then make minor adjustments. I don't know what these settings would be on your amp as mine is a BluesMaster.

[Max]

Max, what do you think about having both the Mid-Boost and Deep switches?

Hi Colossal,

I have no personal experience with this combination because AFAIK it does not exist in any original Dumble amp. At least I never played such an amp if one should exist. But I am rather sure that Alexander had his reasons not to combine them. My impression ist, that all he does has a very good reason and I don't think it is that probable that he did never built an amp with this combination because this would have be too complicated for him or too expensive etc.. But this is only guessing of course.

For real aggressive highest gain and full bottom rock sounds with an active Alembic or Bartolini pickup in front of the Dumble I most often use the FET or NOR input (according to the amount of preamp gain and brightness I want), bright on, deep on and PB or rock on.

"The secret control on the Overdrive's panel section is the ratio control, which controls how much overdrive is fed back into the circuit. If you turn that up, it's Rock City." (Alexander Dumble in Guitar Player Magazine – September 1985).

I am still a bit confused by the OD stage and the differences between generations. Is the Ratio a separate function? I thought this became the Level, which is a master volume for the OD stage? (please forgive me as I am still learning all of the Dumble history). So we have Drive, Ratio, and Level...

In a functional sense the "ratio" control sets the relationship between the volume of the OD channel and the clean channel. But for my ears the tone is different when you set the ratio very high and the master low or vice versa. Why this is the case I don't know. For high gain "rock" tones I indeed prefer the tone with the ratio more wide open. If I really play high gain lead sounds in a certain musical context I usually don't need footswitchable clean sounds with a certain volume level anyway.

Cheers,

Max

[talbany]

Max, what do you think about having both the Mid-Boost and Deep switches?

Colossal
I know this was addressed to Max but I'll throw my coin in the pond.. I added both mid boost and Deep to my 2nd Generation 100w hybrid ..IMHO they do serve there purpose used one at a time.. I do find myself using the deep switch more on this amp than any of my Skyliners.. If you activate both together you get a much smaller mid range boost which maybe you find useful so IMHO are a kind of contradiction..
BTW.. I like mid boost option on my 2nd gen hybrid amp especially in OD

Hope This Helps!!

Tony

Tony, this is excellent and thanks for the reply. This is exactly the kind of specificity I was looking for. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around all of the options and what is used for what. I do like a mid-prominent sound, but that comes from my experience playing Marshally amps. That is very interesting to know about the interaction of Mid and Deep negating the mid-boost somewhat; I hadn't thought about that in terms of how the two are working together in the circuit!

Best regards,
Dave

Dave glad it was of some use.. Also keep in mind the 2nd generation amps are already midrange/bright heavy amps to my ears so some might feel that the mid boost in these amps are a bit over the top especially with single coils and a bright sounding speaker..If you are a fan of soaring cut through the mix type mid range you might find this feature useful.. Just thought I would mention.. Good Luck!!

Tony

[Colossal]

I have no personal experience with this combination because AFAIK it does not exist in any original Dumble amp. At least I never played such an amp if one should exist. But I am rather sure that Alexander had his reasons not to combine them. My impression ist, that all he does has a very good reason and I don't think it is that probable that he did never built an amp with this combination because this would have be too complicated for him or too expensive etc.. But this is only guessing of course.

Max, I am sure you are right about HAD doing what he did for very specific reasons and not arbitrary addition of "mods" that might have minimal utility. That is very likely the case.

In a functional sense the "ratio" control sets the relationship between the volume of the OD channel and the clean channel. But for my ears the tone is different when you set the ratio very high and the master low or vice versa. Why this is the case I don't know. For high gain "rock" tones I indeed prefer the tone with the ratio more wide open. If I really play high gain lead sounds in a certain musical context I usually don't need footswitchable clean sounds with a certain volume level anyway.

So Max, does Ratio essentially become Drive in later generations? Sorry for being dense on this. I understand what it does however. Thanks!

Dave glad it was of some use.. Also keep in mind the 2nd generation amps are already midrange/bright heavy amps to my ears so some might feel that the mid boost in these amps are a bit over the top especially with single coils and a bright sounding speaker..If you are a fan of soaring cut through the mix type mid range you might find this feature useful.. Just thought I would mention.. Good Luck!!

Tony

Very useful Tony, thanks. Ah! An excellent point about the greater mids in the 2nd gen amps. I didn't think of that either I guess I am coming at this taking what Massygt6 has done to achieve the killer tone he is getting from his amp and trying to apply that in context of what I might do for a build along the same lines. [Massygt6's amp] is quite a hybrid for sure, but clearly demonstrates how great these amps can sound with the gain cranked. Generating gain is easy, getting it to sound good can be a real challenge and Massy's amp sounds really good, even through a YouTube demo. That wah clip is over the top but puts a grin on my face

Thanks for the help guys.

Regards,
Dave