pottedplant wrote: ↑Sun Apr 27, 2025 9:13 am
I'm not sure if me observing things is not okay here but I thought this was a discussion forum. I seem to be running into this problem a few times. Am I doing something wrong here? I observe there is a difference between those 2 caps and the other cap and I get my head taken off? Anyhow I love the sound of your amps so you definitely know good caps.
Are you serious?? No one "took your head off"..... Nothing wrong in you observing and discussing but when you start arguing ad infinitum it starts to get stale. Whether #102 has F&Ts or not, there was a question about general use vs audio grade caps and a few comments were made about F&Ts. I (along with others) have tried them in ODS amps and found them horrible. My statement stands.... if you like them, use them.
Those caps are made by F&T check the datasheet. It says TYP A which is a product line of FTCAP. I'm not arguing ad infinitum, you are.
Details this ODS amp predates #102 not by much same year built in the photo the filter board and preamp board match
when you look at #102 looks to me the filter board was replaced at some time
Dumble 94.jpg
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67plexi wrote: ↑Sun Apr 27, 2025 3:56 pm
Details this ODS amp predates #102 not by much same year built in the photo the filter board and preamp board match
when you look at #102 looks to me the filter board was replaced at some time
Dumble 94.jpg
Yeah it probably was but if you look carefully at the reservoir caps in 102 you can see handwriting that would appear to be Dumble's. You can also look at the soldering and wires and to me that looks like a Dumble-installed board (has the same laminate material). It's interesting to see there is no final filtering node by the 1st preamp tube on the one you posted but there's still only 2 reservoir caps, 2 caps on the PSU board and the can cap. Does that mean one of the caps are sharing a set of plates? What are the implications of that? Since this should remain on topic I guess it wouldn't hurt to steer the discussion that way. Does that effectively mean there's half as much filtering capacity or what? Would it be the can cap feeding twice as many plates? Perhaps the can is twice as big as 124's and wired discretely like 102's TAG layout shows?
I think one of the most interesting things about the filtering section is the timing of it. Is there a way to determine how long it takes these caps to fill up after a transient? Is this something datasheets show or give datapoints that can then be used to extrapolate this timing? Is it consistent regardless of brand for the most part or do different caps have wildly different time constants? It seems Dumble preferred Sprague caps and that may be a reason why? Slower? Faster? I would love to delve into the consequences of this in general. There is a clip of John Mayer talking about his PRS amp having a perfectly timed compression constant that makes his playing bounce and I wonder if it's a collaborative thing between the transformer and the caps? https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6KHq4L-CBDw
pottedplant wrote: ↑Sun Apr 27, 2025 9:13 am
I'm not sure if me observing things is not okay here but I thought this was a discussion forum. I seem to be running into this problem a few times. Am I doing something wrong here? I observe there is a difference between those 2 caps and the other cap and I get my head taken off? Anyhow I love the sound of your amps so you definitely know good caps.
Are you serious?? No one "took your head off"..... Nothing wrong in you observing and discussing but when you start arguing ad infinitum it starts to get stale. Whether #102 has F&Ts or not, there was a question about general use vs audio grade caps and a few comments were made about F&Ts. I (along with others) have tried them in ODS amps and found them horrible. My statement stands.... if you like them, use them.
Those caps are made by F&T check the datasheet. It says TYP A which is a product line of FTCAP. I'm not arguing ad infinitum, you are.
Are you serious?? No one "took your head off"..... Nothing wrong in you observing and discussing but when you start arguing ad infinitum it starts to get stale. Whether #102 has F&Ts or not, there was a question about general use vs audio grade caps and a few comments were made about F&Ts. I (along with others) have tried them in ODS amps and found them horrible. My statement stands.... if you like them, use them.
Those caps are made by F&T check the datasheet. It says TYP A which is a product line of FTCAP. I'm not arguing ad infinitum, you are.
Type A is type axial. F&T and Ruby not even close to being the same capacitor and yes Dumble did put the filter board in 102.
CW
A probably does mean Axial internally but those are specific to FT's brand. See Typ AZ as well for dual cap with the shared lead a-la Fender style cathodes (Z may likely mean zwei - two). It's probably German because the screw terminal types are called G. Regardless those caps say Typ A on them and that makes them F&T, no doubt a rarity in Dumble amps but there nonetheless in at least 2 examples from my very limited experience. You can see the AZ style cap here.
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Type A is type axial. F&T and Ruby not even close to being the same capacitor and yes Dumble did put the filter board in 102.
CW
A probably does mean Axial internally but those are specific to FT's brand. See Typ AZ as well for dual cap with the shared lead a-la Fender style cathodes (Z may likely mean zwei - two). It's probably German because the screw terminal types are called G. Regardless those caps say Typ A on them and that makes them F&T, no doubt a rarity in Dumble amps but there nonetheless in at least 2 examples from my very limited experience. You can see the AZ style cap here.
Let's not let that secret out... "Regardless those caps say Typ A on them and that makes them F&T" the cap cloners will be slapping a "Typ A" on their caps and selling them for big $$$
Type A is type axial. F&T and Ruby not even close to being the same capacitor and yes Dumble did put the filter board in 102.
CW
A probably does mean Axial internally but those are specific to FT's brand. See Typ AZ as well for dual cap with the shared lead a-la Fender style cathodes (Z may likely mean zwei - two). It's probably German because the screw terminal types are called G. Regardless those caps say Typ A on them and that makes them F&T, no doubt a rarity in Dumble amps but there nonetheless in at least 2 examples from my very limited experience. You can see the AZ style cap here.
Let's not let that secret out... "Regardless those caps say Typ A on them and that makes them F&T" the cap cloners will be slapping a "Typ A" on their caps and selling them for big $$$
Fwiw #102 has both Plate and screen set up as precision (or totem style) for the power tubes. The last filter section is a can cap like #124.
Anything that's on the B+ line has influence on the sound.
Why members specifically have bad experiences with F&T is interesting. What has set them apart ,construction wise, from what is considered a good cap. Maybe we should discuss that?
A probably does mean Axial internally but those are specific to FT's brand. See Typ AZ as well for dual cap with the shared lead a-la Fender style cathodes (Z may likely mean zwei - two). It's probably German because the screw terminal types are called G. Regardless those caps say Typ A on them and that makes them F&T, no doubt a rarity in Dumble amps but there nonetheless in at least 2 examples from my very limited experience. You can see the AZ style cap here.
Let's not let that secret out... "Regardless those caps say Typ A on them and that makes them F&T" the cap cloners will be slapping a "Typ A" on their caps and selling them for big $$$
Maybe listen to CW... he knows....
What's the point of this reply exactly?
Let's dial down the temperature. The best part about this forum is how civil and helpful everyone is. Tone can be hard to convey and hard to interpret in words (both linguistic and descriptions of guitar tone).
Some of us believe all of the parts matter (type, brand, materials, etc.), some believe certain parts matter (dialectric type for caps), others believe it is just tolerance that matters.
These conversations are always a bit charged. But you have many of the top contributors to this forum (who have significant in person experience with real Dumble amps) weighing in on your questions, which is great. My personal interpretation of your responses to them is that you are only looking for confirmation of what you already believe rather than trying to learn from their deep knowledge and experience.
You are free to believe what you want and build the amp how you want. Please try to be respectful to other forum members, continued negativity tends to motivate people to spend their time elsewhere which hurts us all.
Let's not let that secret out... "Regardless those caps say Typ A on them and that makes them F&T" the cap cloners will be slapping a "Typ A" on their caps and selling them for big $$$
Maybe listen to CW... he knows....
What's the point of this reply exactly?
Let's dial down the temperature. The best part about this forum is how civil and helpful everyone is. Tone can be hard to convey and hard to interpret in words (both linguistic and descriptions of guitar tone).
Some of us believe all of the parts matter (type, brand, materials, etc.), some believe certain parts matter (dialectric type for caps), others believe it is just tolerance that matters.
These conversations are always a bit charged. But you have many of the top contributors to this forum (who have significant in person experience with real Dumble amps) weighing in on your questions, which is great. My personal interpretation of your responses to them is that you are only looking for confirmation of what you already believe rather than trying to learn from their deep knowledge and experience.
You are free to believe what you want and build the amp how you want. Please try to be respectful to other forum members, continued negativity tends to motivate people to spend their time elsewhere which hurts us all.
-Dan
No, and thank you. I know what I see and I can read. Those caps are marked Typ A and that is an F&T marking. Period. If you think standing on evidence is rude and disrespectful that's your issue (and more importantly theirs) not mine. The statement I am responding to (repeatedly at this point) is that Dumble did use F&T's. It is seen in the Rich Mcdonald Tweedle Dee. Again, I will not be backing down from this. It's a fact and I don't really make a habit of letting people run me around with gaslighting. I am quite civil but I will not respond flimsily to abusive manipulation like that. There is nothing unreasonable about that position. I've posted the evidence proving my point, there is no part of what I've said that is opinion. Photos shown of 102 show the markings and the datasheet hosted on Mersen's website corroborate that, the Mcdonald Tweedle Dee also clearly indicate F&T.
Disagreeing and arguing a point are not rude and disrespectful, however comments like this are rude, disrespectful and uncalled for.
Redefining me defending my position with evidence as "arguing ad infinitum" is disrespectful and uncalled for. I found the proof and posted it. That is not arguing ad infinitum. It's normal discourse when the other party doesn't resort to mocking and judging....
I appreciate the thought, but any difference is likely to be in the composition of the dielectric or in the nature of the oxide layer formed on the anode surface. Not anything that would be obvious to the naked eye.
