would these be just as good as electrolytic? only longer lasting, i.e. normally never needing replacement (unlike electrolytic).
would there be a noticeable different sound? I would think not.
Anyone tried/using these? any experience?
I think later silver face Fenders use them (white solid material w/blue print)
thanks
tantalum for bypass?
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
Re: tantalum for bypass?
The white caps in the silverface amps are electrolytics made by Mallory..No amp I've ever been in uses tantalum's for bypass caps.. Why on earth would you want to use the cheapest caps available on such an important part of an amps tone..I've never used them there and have never seen an amp made that uses them.. My guess would be that they would pretty much suck!!Pete wrote:would these be just as good as electrolytic? only longer lasting, i.e. normally never needing replacement (unlike electrolytic).
would there be a noticeable different sound? I would think not.
Anyone tried/using these? any experience?
I think later silver face Fenders use them (white solid material w/blue print)
thanks
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
Re: tantalum for bypass?
well, that pretty much clears it up, thanks.
just thought I had heard of it long time ago. mistaken about the Fenders also.
just thought I had heard of it long time ago. mistaken about the Fenders also.
Re: tantalum for bypass?
Not true, many Neve studio modules are famous for their huge sound, and used tantalum caps . I have some in my studio, and they are the greatest.
Re: tantalum for bypass?
Not trying to argue about something I know nothing about but regarding the reference to "cheapest", in checking Mouser I find the best price on an electrolytic in the $ .25 - $ .33 range
http://mouser.com/Passive-Components/Ca ... 19Z1z0vkpm
and tant range is $1.59 - $3.85 http://mouser.com/Passive-Components/Ca ... 19Z1z1414h. for a 4.7uf/50v (axial) example. Just to clarify.
Are BP generally concidered more important to tone than coupling? Can't say I've read much here about that.
http://mouser.com/Passive-Components/Ca ... 19Z1z0vkpm
and tant range is $1.59 - $3.85 http://mouser.com/Passive-Components/Ca ... 19Z1z1414h. for a 4.7uf/50v (axial) example. Just to clarify.
Are BP generally concidered more important to tone than coupling? Can't say I've read much here about that.
talbany wrote:Why on earth would you want to use the cheapest caps available on such an important part of an amps tone..
Re: tantalum for bypass?
would these be just as good as electrolytic? only longer lasting, i.e. normally never needing replacement (unlike electrolytic).
would there be a noticeable different sound? I would think not.
Anyone tried/using these? any experience?
I think later silver face Fenders use them (white solid material w/blue print)
What we have here is failure to communicate!!..
In Dumble-dom Tant caps are generally associated with this type tant..see pic..
If your referring to a different type tant post a pic or link...
I've never used that type no opinion.. Sorry for any confusion..
Tony
would there be a noticeable different sound? I would think not.
Anyone tried/using these? any experience?
I think later silver face Fenders use them (white solid material w/blue print)
What we have here is failure to communicate!!..
In Dumble-dom Tant caps are generally associated with this type tant..see pic..
If your referring to a different type tant post a pic or link...
I've never used that type no opinion.. Sorry for any confusion..
Tony
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" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
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Cliff Schecht
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Re: tantalum for bypass?
Tantalum's are higher quality, lower leakage and are much more stable than electrolytics. The current crop of tants are also very low ESR and hold up well over time, much better than electrolytics. They are also small in stature and good for our modern age of miniaturization because they tend to be flat whereas electrolytics are tall. The disadvantage of tantalums is that they do NOT like overvoltages, even a little bit will ruin one. They are also much more expensive than their electrolytic counterparts and typically don't come in as large of values.
As for audio, we use them at PAiA in our Tube Mic Pre and although this preamp is usually heavily modded by customers, one thing they don't ever change are the tantalums in the signal path that block DC after the phantom voltage circuit. IMO they are fine for audio but I typically avoid them because they are so easy to ruin with overvoltages and are usually expensive to boot.
As for audio, we use them at PAiA in our Tube Mic Pre and although this preamp is usually heavily modded by customers, one thing they don't ever change are the tantalums in the signal path that block DC after the phantom voltage circuit. IMO they are fine for audio but I typically avoid them because they are so easy to ruin with overvoltages and are usually expensive to boot.
Cliff Schecht - Circuit P.I.
Re: tantalum for bypass?
Cliff
I'm sure they'll work fine there because they've got a nice bias voltage on them from the phantom circuit and a very small signal to keep things linear.
Put them in a circuit where the waveform is predominantly AC and with a small DC voltage and the non-linearity can really come home to roost and they can sound spectacularly awful.
It's all about application with tants, and the propensity to self-destruct (quite spectacularly) means they're not the best suited for guitar amps unless chosen carefully.
I do agree though that in many respects they are massively superior to electrolytics. But IMO for audio their use has to be very carefully considered.
I'm sure they'll work fine there because they've got a nice bias voltage on them from the phantom circuit and a very small signal to keep things linear.
Put them in a circuit where the waveform is predominantly AC and with a small DC voltage and the non-linearity can really come home to roost and they can sound spectacularly awful.
It's all about application with tants, and the propensity to self-destruct (quite spectacularly) means they're not the best suited for guitar amps unless chosen carefully.
I do agree though that in many respects they are massively superior to electrolytics. But IMO for audio their use has to be very carefully considered.
Re: tantalum for bypass?
I think I would be more apt to try so plastic caps on the bypass.
You get that same long life benefit and they have achieved greater values in recent years.
Traditionally, I believe that the reason they always have used E caps for bypass caps is due to the ability to make a large enough value in a small package.
I have read several articles about using film caps for cathode bypass.
No idea how they would affect the tone vs a E cap.
You get that same long life benefit and they have achieved greater values in recent years.
Traditionally, I believe that the reason they always have used E caps for bypass caps is due to the ability to make a large enough value in a small package.
I have read several articles about using film caps for cathode bypass.
No idea how they would affect the tone vs a E cap.
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
Re: tantalum for bypass?
All the Mesa/Boogie Mark amps use tantalum cathode bypass caps.talbany wrote: Why on earth would you want to use the cheapest caps available on such an important part of an amps tone..I've never used them there and have never seen an amp made that uses them.. My guess would be that they would pretty much suck!!
Tony
Gil
Re: tantalum for bypass?
I did not know that.
I wonder what the tonal difference would be between those and conventional electrolytic caps is.
I wonder what the tonal difference would be between those and conventional electrolytic caps is.
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
Re: tantalum for bypass?
Larger value/low voltage film caps are available but not commonly used. E caps are just plain cheap and do the job which is why I suspect that they are so prevalent.Structo wrote:Traditionally, I believe that the reason they always have used E caps for bypass caps is due to the ability to make a large enough value in a small package.
I have read several articles about using film caps for cathode bypass.
No idea how they would affect the tone vs a E cap.
IME, film caps when used for cathode bypass, provide a tighter bass and improved clarity. The also don't have the ESR of electrolytic caps and feel a bit "faster". I have some WIMA 22uF/16V polyester film caps I'm going to be using for cathode bypass in a pair of Blackface builds.
Re: tantalum for bypass?
Hi guys!
Didn't Reinhold Bogner use them on some of his designs?
Never looked into one of his amps, though.
He sure knows a thing or two about amp building and tweaking...
Lately I bought his VOLKS-amp, the Bogner Alchemist.
Nice amp for the money, even doin' some dumble style tones.
The pics on the net show a lot of different caps (Mallory 150, ODs, Wima,...). I'd like to think, he chose them carefully...
Haven't had a look at the guts of my own Alchemist.
BTW: If someone PM'd a schemo of the alchemist, Id greatly appreciate it.
I am thinking of modding it a bit to taste. Trade some gain for more attack and clarity. Expect the 3rd and 4th stage of the mercury channel to be the target.
Ciao
Martin
Didn't Reinhold Bogner use them on some of his designs?
Never looked into one of his amps, though.
He sure knows a thing or two about amp building and tweaking...
Lately I bought his VOLKS-amp, the Bogner Alchemist.
Nice amp for the money, even doin' some dumble style tones.
The pics on the net show a lot of different caps (Mallory 150, ODs, Wima,...). I'd like to think, he chose them carefully...
Haven't had a look at the guts of my own Alchemist.
BTW: If someone PM'd a schemo of the alchemist, Id greatly appreciate it.
I am thinking of modding it a bit to taste. Trade some gain for more attack and clarity. Expect the 3rd and 4th stage of the mercury channel to be the target.
Ciao
Martin