What speakers does Dumble use?

[StratStringSlinger]

I was wondering if the experts here can let me know what speakers Mr. Dumble used in his speaker cabinets/amps? Does he offer a variety of speakers or did he only offer one type? I know EVM 12L and Celestion G12-65 are popular with users but what came stock? Did he just offer EVM-12L's or did he offer other options? Also, what Ohm cabs and any other technical info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[marcos]

Hi Wayne,
HAD used Altec Lansings until 1979 as stock speakers, then changed to
EV 12 Ls.But he would certainly offer other options if desired.
The Celestion G12 65 is Robben Ford´s choice, I have also seen some with JBLs, Santana uses Tone Tubbies etc.
Personally I have come to the conclusion that speaker choice is
very much a matter of taste, you either like a certain speaker
or you don´t.
Also keep in mind that the cabinet is at least as important as the chassis
itself.I never owned a real Dumble cab, but I tried one once,
and was quite amazed by the tone, especially considering that, generally,
I personally am not a fan of EVs.
BTW the cab housed EV 12L Proline speakers(300 w), also a bit different from 200w version.
It is generally agreed on this forum that the Celestion Vintage 30 is not
the best choice for Dumble style amps, and I tend to agree

Trust your ears Marcos

[ER]

It is generally agreed on this forum that the Celestion Vintage 30 is not
the best choice for Dumble style amps, and I tend to agree

[/quote]

Just goes to show how personal speakers can be; Sonny Landreth prefers two vintage 30's in a bandmaster cab or 4 in a marshall.

Vintage 30's and closed back cabinets, two aparent no-no's with dumbles.

EV's are the most common, and I think Dumble was as interested in reliability as he was tone so there you go. Back then there were fewer options than today.

Does anybody know what speaker is shown in the cabinet for #40? Some kind of alnico, I was told once what brand but can't recall.

-E

[StratStringSlinger]

Thanks for the info guys. I was curious b/c I use Celestion type speakers with my amps and was wondering how they would sound with EVM-12L's as Mr. Dumble would originally have intended/voiced his amps.

Does anyone know when the most recent Dumble cab/combo's have been produced and can confirm if he still loaded the amps with EVM's? If so, is he using NOS/Old EVM's or the reissued ones?

Also, I once saw a picture where there were markings on the speaker frame, apparently some electronic measurements. Did he carefully select speakers and if so what should we be looking for in a speaker?

Thanks!

[CHIP]

Marcos,
Do you know if Santana uses Alnico or ceramic Tone Tubbies?

[Max]

The three clips I had posted here:

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=45

all have been recorded with an old and well worn Marshall 4 x 12 "basketwave" cabinet, still loaded with the original 25W Celestions but wired for a 4 Ohms total load.

Clip 1. is a stock '63 Strat and a stock ODS 50W head. Amp settings as far as I remember: FET input, bright on, rock on, Volume and OD full up (guitars have "Volume" pots), Treble around 5, Middle full up, Bass around 3, accent on.

Clip 2.: Some nameless 70ies amp (4xEL34) a friend of mine had found at a flea market (for around 50 bucks) and a stock '74 mapleneck-alder Strat (into some T-rex to do the OD). Perhaps not that good a Dumble-clone, as you of course have noticed and some noted, but perhaps not that bad a tool for 50 bucks.

Clip 3. is a stock '74 mapleneck-ash Strat and the same Dumble ODS and similar settings as in clip 1.

BTW: Tubes in this ODS: 3 Telefunken ECC83 - 2 Sylvania 6L6 STR

I like these old 4 x 12 Marshall cabinets with 25W or 30W Pre-Rola-Celestions for the old 70ies ODS (first, second, third generation) and a Strat. Great "earthy" tones (my taste of course).

Dumble amps are versatile beasts. So have fun and find your own personal "grail tone"!

All the best

Max

[Max]

I was wondering if the experts here can let me know what speakers Mr. Dumble used in his speaker cabinets/amps? Does he offer a variety of speakers or did he only offer one type? I know EVM 12L and Celestion G12-65 are popular with users but what came stock? Did he just offer EVM-12L's or did he offer other options? Also, what Ohm cabs and any other technical info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Here is, what you could read in the '85 "Guitar Player" interview (see: http://www.roblivesey.com/dumble/):

"After experimenting with various speakers, what do you favor?

I've gone with everything, there are a lot of things I still like. The most versatile is the EV. But all manufacturers, include Altec and JBL, make wonderful speakers that do specific jobs other speakers can't do. I divide speakers into two classifications: the efficient and the low-efficient. Both are very useable. Low efficiency speakers are things like Celestion and Jenson and PAS. Usually because of the physical construction, they don't get the same acoustic level per watt as the Altecs, JBLs, and EVs do. There's an advantage to that, because you can make the amplifier work harder to get the same acoustic level, and a whole different kind of harmonic structure results. I love the sound of JBLs, especially for chords, but I had a lot of trouble with 4" voice coil not traveling in a linear fashion. The actual coil would short out against the magnet structure. The Altecs didn't do that, so I was using them up until '79, when EV started coming out the the EVM series.

How does your philosophy on speaker enclosures contrast with other companies?

I think mine's different. I just don't believe in a baffle board with a couple of sides. Everything is designed to respond tonally. Even my open-back enclosures use air to the optimum. It's an ongoing process; I'm still finding out things that are useful. There's a definite technique to developing enclosures. Instead of increasing the output all from the front by feeding more watts in, I designed a special series of open-back enclosures so that there's actually an air pole inversion process--I make the air respond in an in-phase relationship, both in front and in the rear of the enclosure. So, from the same amount of speakers, it's almost a doubling of sound.

Does that change the tonal quality?

Yes. The low end is absolutely luscious. You feel like you're floating on a football field filled with marshmallows. And it gives a singe to the midrange that puts solos right out there. It works great for chords and solos, but especially well for slide. It's the kind of enclosure that Lindley and Lowell George used."

Cheers

Max

[marcos]

Marcos,
Do you know if Santana uses Alnico or ceramic Tone Tubbies?

AFAIK Santana uses Alnico Tone Tubbies in a 4x12 Tone Tubby cab,
but also a Marshall 4x12 cab and a Boogie cab with a JBL K120
reconed by A Brown Sound. Marcos[/quote]

[marcos]

It is generally agreed on this forum that the Celestion Vintage 30 is not
the best choice for Dumble style amps, and I tend to agree

Just goes to show how personal speakers can be; Sonny Landreth prefers two vintage 30's in a bandmaster cab or 4 in a marshall.

Vintage 30's and closed back cabinets, two aparent no-no's with dumbles.

-E

[/quote]

I was actually thinking of Sonny Landreth when I wrote this,
and it just proves to me that you have to be wary of generalizations.
However, for most players´tastes Vintage 30s and ODS amps is not
the best starting point.
I am not so sure about the closed back cabs,though, HAD made these as well
for some players, e.g. SRV, and I have seen Robben Ford using his
ODS with Marshall cabs. Marcos

[Sonny ReVerb]

You feel like you're floating on a football field filled with marshmallows.

You had to bring up the 'marshmallows', didn't you!

[CHIP]

Thanks for the info Marcos.

[StratStringSlinger]

Cool info guys. So I was thinking of picking up two old EV-12L's for my 2X12/SSS type amp. I was wondering if I should go with 2 16ohms for a total of 8ohms or 2 8 ohms for a total of 4ohms? What would HAD have done? i.e. where his 2X12 4ohms or 8ohms and does it even matter?

[marcos]

AFAIK the Dumble 2x12 cabs were 4 ohms.
Although I am not a big fan of EVs I must say that the Steel String Singer
and a good EV-loaded cab are a perfect match, based on my experience
of playing a real SSS through a Dumble cab loaded with EVs.
Marcos

[Structo]

I imagine that the reason HAD used the 8 ohm speaker is because the OT's he used were generally 4 ohm secondary.

[StratStringSlinger]

I imagine that the reason HAD used the 8 ohm speaker is because the OT's he used were generally 4 ohm secondary.

Does having it match the secondary make a difference in tone or performance of amp (i.e. volume, wear and tear, etc.)? Am I missing out on something by running my amp with an 8ohm cab right now? Thanks!

P.S. Can someone explain what secondary means! haha =)