Gents, Introducing "Constance" the new Trainwreck

[aaronz28]

this thing simply rocks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1XNOgW16f4

[IMG:685:1023]http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt20 ... 0077-1.jpg[/img]
[IMG680]http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt20 ... C_0028.jpg[/img]

THE KIDS - in order of appearance,
Constance atop her 2x12 (which now has golds in it)
Komet Ltd #25 atop a 4x12 with original cone JBLs (2xD120f and 2xD131)
1968 Marshall Plexi 50watt 1987circuit atop her matching 1968 Basketweave with Orignal 25w Pre-Rolas

[IMG685]http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt20 ... C_0003.jpg[/img]
[IMG685]http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt20 ... C_0001.jpg[/img]

my 86
[IMG:685:1023]http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt20 ... 0006-1.jpg[/img]

my 58
[IMG:685:1023]http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt20 ... 0005-1.jpg[/img]

MY 64 Twin - earth moving Clean tones
[IMG685]http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt20 ... C_0008.jpg[/img]

Effects : 1979 TS808 and a Soldano Supercharger
[IMG685]http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt20 ... C_0009.jpg[/img]

[selloutrr]

Thank you for the post it's a Pretty amp!
Ask the player how true is the video to the sound you hear in the room?
What's making the mid compression the amplifier, the microphone being pushed close to it's max SPL / a failing diaphram, or a compressor/limiter being hit to hard?
What did you recorded the video with?

[aaronz28]

i'm the player.
Its hard to comment on how true to the video it sounds..
its really really loud, and as you can see, i hvae very very small space in my home studio.

i need to get the amp out in a room to breathe some.

the vid was recorded with a Fuji camera, and the audio was turned off.

the recording is dead dry with a vintage RCA (new ribbon that hasn't broken in yet) into a LaChapell tube pre, into an Apogee Converter recorded at 96k/24bit, and then squashed down to sync the video in garageband, and then futher compressed in Imovie. and then uploaded into youtube (futher compressed)

the original AIF audio file clipped a few times, so i definately need to work on my recording technique, but its far better than just a camera microphone. and i'm not sure a vintage rca mic is the ideal tool to record.

the speaker is a Celestion GOld which is literally fresh out of the box.... it has had less than 30 minutes play time and most of that was attenuated down to less than a watt as I have a 3 year old at home and haven't had time to really crank anything over the holidays with everyone being home all the time. LOL

[Cliff Schecht]

I think what we were hearing was the sound you get when you shove a ribbon mic in front of a guitar speaker being driven by something as mid-heavy as the Express! The Express easily has more power in the mid band than anywhere else. I think this, combined with his ribbon mic shoved right up on the speaker (not poking fun, just thinking out loud ) made for the goofiness we are hearing in the recording. I can't say the highs are brittle/harsh as they would be with certain large-diaphragm condensor mics but the recording reminds me of the sound you get when you listen to a speaker straight on as opposed to being a few feet above it. Low frequencies take a lot more energy to produce and so the speaker has no problem making the high end and sending it on it's way while the bass takes its time to develop. Leads to lots of highs and mids while the bass gets muddled and woofy. Move the mic back a few feet and put it 45 degrees off axis from the speakers center, should sound better (minus all of the compression you mentioned).

[Colossal]

Thanks for posting that clip Aaron. You can really hear the alnico character and while it's not a speaker I usually associate with the Express, I gotta say that it sounds really good. 10 minute break in and all. I really like the way it sounds like it's holding it's breath and then POOF on those edge of those low chords. The compression from the speaker is nice. Alnico sounds a lot smoother than a Greenback, more refined. Not better, just different. Will be interested to hear more clips!

Once, I heard an Express clone in person played through an oversized 1x12 with a Gold and just didn't care for it. It sounded way too bright and glassy with this annoying bell-like overtone. But that probably had a lot to do with the guitar. Interesting that your setup has that apparent alnico quality but seems much, much warmer.

[Bruciep07]

I don't see the Liverpool in any of those pics

[selloutrr]

ribbon mics are about as true as you can get for capturing guitars. The down side to a ribbon mic is they require a preamp that has more head room then most in order to get the rich fullness out of the microphone. Since the ribbon mic is so sensitive it's truly a mic you have to use placement to dial in. listen move. listen move.... They are also more sensitive to high SPL then a dynamic or most condenser microphones. 129-147db seems to be the max for most ribbon mics. I keep an SPL meter on hand and make sure i never push the mic more then 75% of it's max to prevent damaging the ribbon in the event of a spike.
I think a good part of what we are hearing is the lossy compression piling up thru the various stages on conversion, mixing with the artifacts of clipping. With the mid freq of the amps natural voicing is just the dominant freq's taking up the bulk of the space. As for mic placement, no one way is correct and I've made 100's of hits with close micing ribbons. but if you find a place that sounds good to your ears it's a good place to start with a ribbon mic. Try decoupling the cabinet from the floor I seldom compress guitars other then the master bus and mastering, all the compression comes from the tubes

[geetarpicker]

Sounds nice, and pretty fat considering it's a 1x12. I really like the Celestion gold with my '64 Deluxe, but have yet to try it with the Express. Still you might break out the old G12M 4x12 next time!

My feeling is the compression folks are hearing is partially because the bright switch was OFF. The amp will be a bit mushier sounding that way, and not quite have the clarity and definition of having it ON. It helps give the illusion (perhaps) of less compression. However with it ON the trick is to find the right speakers to balance it out, right pickups, right cords, and tone setting on the guitar even... Plus you have to get low enough gain tubes so that you can get the volume up pretty far, so that the bright switch signal isn't leaned on quite as heavily. On the Express and most amps the bright switch is simply a bypass on the volume, so the further you push the gain the less bright it is so with these you have to get it up there and deal with the gain. Still your clip sounds quite brighter than I would think my original would ever sound IF I didn't use the bright switch. Mine is downright muddy with it off. Still I have yet to compare a JM built wreck with an original KF built one, so maybe I'm in left field on this theory. Oooops, I'm assuming this is a JM built "new" wreck?

Also hearing a distorted amp, just about any distorted amp will sound a bit odd recorded so close and mixed totally dry of effects. Not that you want to pile on the reverb, but just a tad of small room type reverb may actually sound more like it does in the room. Another angle would be a distance mic mixed in for some natural ambience.

One good tip with ribbon mics is to lean them in slightly, as the sound pressure then doesn't fatique the ribbon as easily as it's partially deflected instead of hitting it flat on. Learned that trick from Michael Wagener, who loves the Royers VERY close to the speakers even on blazing 100 watters. He's got some 4x12s with no grills, so he can get even closer than would be physically possible with a typical grilled cab!

That said, here is a recording that was the first time I've used a ribbon mic on my Express. Royer ribbon, mixed about 50/50 with a Sennheiser dynamic both right at the grill with G12M 4x12. Volume and treble 1, others on 1/2, full bright ON.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-yEuKTLlr0

[aaronz28]

Thanksguys,
I'm planing to do more recording on Monday when my wife and son are away. I have a pair of Royer R122s that I use at church and I'll bring them home and experiment with some recording ideas presented here.

I do alot of Choral/Orchestral recording and that is all ambient stuff so close micing a firebreathing guitar cab is new to me.

In my room, (which is a wood paneled basesment, not a sound proofed studio) even with a 1x12, its so loud that it's hard to get a sense of what is actually going on the recording, so turning the bright switch on might sound overkill in the room, but work ok on the recording.

I'll try various things and post some mp3s ( although they'll be lossy) with notes on how each was recorded.

Glenn, mine is definately the clearest thing I've ever heard even with the bright switch off. When I roll the guitar vol down and turn the bright switch on, the clean tone rivals anything I've ever heard, so that is where i find myself using it.

I've heard some people say these things are useless above 1:00, and I can say with certainty that mine is not. I can have the vol and treb at 4:00 and it's metal territory, which I have no use for, but it goes there.

At that level, it's hugely susceptible to noise, of which there are a ton of things In my basement that create rf noise, but the amp is tight.

Since JM first fired it up, it's only had about 5-6 hours play time as I've not gigged with it, and Gold u hear is even newer out of the box.

In the 5 or sohours I've really had to wail on it, I've noticed it settling in and smoothing out some, not that it was ever harsh, but it did/does have an edge that is pleasantly softening

Thanks

Aaron

[aaronz28]

sorry, duplicate post

[geetarpicker]

If the Royers sound too dark up close (mine sure does by itself) you can add a 2nd mic (like a 57, e906/e609, or 421) to brighten it up. Without a 2nd brighter mic you might get a more balanced tone on the Royer by simply backing it away from the cab some perhaps 2-3 feet out. Personally the Royer up close works very well though (even centered on the cone) as long as you either EQ in some extra top end or mix in another brighter mic with it. With the two different mics, mixing the two together and changing this balance IS your EQ.

Here are some good tips if you haven't seen this already.
http://www.royerlabs.com/rectips_electricguitar.html

And pics of mic setups.
http://www.royerlabs.com/royersonprorigs.html

[selloutrr]

align the diaphrams for the least amount of phase if you are using multiple microphones on a single source. or use phase shifts as a natural eq to remove unwanted freq. i.e. the 3K boost on an SM57 can be removed by using a "Y" cable and two SM57's place both mics the same distance then move one mic back the distance of the head.

___________
___________

this makes the SM57 almost a flat freq response microphone without EQ.

I use an RTA and SPL meter to balance most of my studio mics before they go to tape. The less I have to do in post the better and more open the end product sounds.

another great way to track "natural" sounding guitars is to use a stereo M/S approach similar to micing drum overheads and use the room as the speaker. Do to phase and delay I recommend using time alignment.

you might also try front and back micing the cab and move one mic around until they cancel each other out. flip the phase and sit back as you have a HUGE guitar sound!

[Structo]

So I take it this is a real Express recently built?

Sounds good, I don't ever expect home clips to sound like a CD or live, there are limitations there.

Congrats on the new amp!

[selloutrr]

If it's a JM build have you popped her open and looked under the hood?

[scole]

sounds perfect, what transformers are in it?