Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Non-tube amp discussion to discuss music, girls, life, etc.

Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal

User avatar
NickC
Posts: 1814
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: Upstate New York

Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Post by NickC »

The Gibson Guitar Raid

The Obama Administration is at war with every business they don’t choose to subsidize.
by John Hayward
08/26/2011


The Justice Department raided the Gibson Guitar​ factory in Nashville on Wednesday morning. From a Gibson press release:

On August 24, 2011, around 8:45 a.m. CDT, agents for the federal government executed four search warrants on Gibson’s facilities in Nashville and Memphis and seized several pallets of wood, electronic files and guitars. Gibson had to cease its manufacturing operations and send workers home for the day, while armed agents executed the search warrants. Gibson has fully cooperated with the execution of the search warrants.

This actually happened once before:

In 2009, more than a dozen agents with poo weapons invaded the Gibson factory in Nashville. The Government seized guitars and a substantial amount of ebony fingerboard blanks from Madagascar. To date, 1 year and 9 months later, criminal charges have NOT been filed, yet the Government still holds Gibson’s property.

Why is the Justice Department invading Gibson’s factory and seizing its property, without filing any charges? Do they think illegal materials might be hidden inside the guitars? Or, given recent history, were they trying to hide illegal guns inside guitars headed for Mexico?

No, this is all about the wood the guitars are made from. As the Wall Street Journal explains:

The question in the first raid seemed to be whether Gibson had been buying illegally harvested hardwoods from protected forests, such as the Madagascar ebony that makes for such lovely fretboards. And if Gibson did knowingly import illegally harvested ebony from Madagascar, that wouldn't be a negligible offense. Peter Lowry, ebony and rosewood expert at the Missouri Botanical Garden, calls the Madagascar wood trade the "equivalent of Africa's blood diamonds." But with the new raid, the government seems to be questioning whether some wood sourced from India met every regulatory jot and tittle.

What jots and tittles would those be? This isn’t some kind of environmental crisis. I don’t suppose Gibson’s musician clientele would tolerate one of those. According to the Gibson statement:

The wood the Government seized on August 24 is from a Forest Stewardship Council certified supplier and is FSC Controlled, meaning that the wood complies with the standards of the Forest Stewardship Council, which is an industry-recognized and independent, not-for-profit organization established to promote responsible management of the world’s forests. FSC Controlled Wood standards require, among other things, that the wood not be illegally harvested and not be harvested in violation of traditional and civil rights. See www.fsc.org for more information. Gibson has a long history of supporting sustainable and responsible sources of wood and has worked diligently with entities such as the Rainforest Alliance and Greenpeace to secure FSC certified supplies. The wood seized on August 24 satisfied FSC standards.

Well, it’s all about the Lacey Act, which the Memphis Daily News tells us “does not directly address conservation issues, but is about obeying all laws of the countries from which wood products are procured.” In other words, if you’re going to buy wood from India, you have to be in full compliance with Indian law.

Which Indian law did Gibson allegedly violate? Gibson Guitar CEO Henry Juszkiewicz told the Memphis Daily News the government refuses to explain the charges to him:

But Gibson’s CEO says his company has not been told what it did wrong and that he assumes the allegation is that some of the wood being used to manufacture the company’s guitars is illegal.

“Everything is sealed. They won’t tell us anything,” Juszkiewicz said, never raising his voice but pulling no punches in his defense of the storied guit-box maker.

However, a Reuters report includes some speculation that it might be a weird Justice Department interpretation of a law the Indian government has not asked the American government to enforce:

"(The government) has suggested that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department's interpretation of a law in India," Juszkiewicz said.

If the same wood from the same tree was finished by Indian workers, the material would be legal, he said.

In an affidavit, agent John Rayfield of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service said U.S. Customs agents in June detained a shipment of sawn ebony logs from India.

The paperwork accompanying the shipment identified it fraudulently as Indian ebony fingerboards for guitars and it did not say it was going to Gibson, the affidavit said.

In July, agents observed Indian ebony and rosewood delivered to a storage facility for Gibson, according to the affidavit, which asked permission to seize Gibson's business computers.

Juszkiewicz vented his frustrations to the Memphis Daily News:

“The federal bureaucracy is just out of hand,” Juszkiewicz said. “And it seems to me there’s almost a class warfare of companies versus people, rich versus poor, yo mama versus yo mama … and there’s just a lack of somebody that stands up and says, ‘I’m about everyone. I’m really about America and doing what’s good for the country and not fighting these little battles.’”

“We feel totally abused. We believe the arrogance of federal power is impacting me personally, our company personally and the employees here in Tennessee, and it’s just plain wrong.”

I can’t imagine why we have stagnant GDP growth and chronic high unemployment! The Obama Administration is actively at war with every business they don’t choose to subsidize.

John Hayward is a staff writer for HUMAN EVENTS
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=45785


This is madness! Madness! :x
DonMoose
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 10:39 pm

Re: Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Post by DonMoose »

The direct-from-Gibson version here:
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/N ... 0825-2011/
User avatar
ToneMerc
Posts: 3480
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:55 pm
Location: East Coast

Re: Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Post by ToneMerc »

You never get the whole story, here's the most detailed background info that I've seen.

http://www.furnituretoday.com/blog/The_ ... t_Raid.php
User avatar
jelle
Posts: 2391
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:55 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Post by jelle »

ToneMerc wrote:You never get the whole story, here's the most detailed background info that I've seen.

http://www.furnituretoday.com/blog/The_ ... t_Raid.php
So reading this, it appears to me that the issue started when, according to the comments on that page, the government of Madagascar was bribed and is aware of this illegal situation.
I wonder how this affects how the Lacey act can be used in this case...

It appears to me that Gibson has been unaware that the material was illegal, as it came with FSC documents, I have not seen proof that they were aware.

Interesting case.
User avatar
ToneMerc
Posts: 3480
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:55 pm
Location: East Coast

Re: Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Post by ToneMerc »

jelle wrote:
So reading this, it appears to me that the issue started when, according to the comments on that page, the government of Madagascar was bribed and is aware of this illegal situation.
I wonder how this affects how the Lacey act can be used in this case...

It appears to me that Gibson has been unaware that the material was illegal, as it came with FSC documents, I have not seen proof that they were aware.

Interesting case.
Follow the money trail and organized crime will show it's head at any opportunity to make money whether it's illegal drugs, fake prescription medicines, counterfeit goods, insurance fraud, credit card fraud, human trafficking and obviously wood.

If you knew if the source, would actually admit it or would you play the calculated risk game and roll the dice, while letting someone prove it in court. Maybe you will get a jury that can be convinced it's only some wood slabs.

Yes, a very interesting case for sure.

TM
amplifiednation
Posts: 2085
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:19 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Post by amplifiednation »

I've seen some AAAAA flametops that should be illegal.

This is crazy.
Amplified Nation
www.amplifiednation.com
@ampnation
User avatar
Structo
Posts: 15446
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:01 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Post by Structo »

What is troubling is that even after the first raid, there have been no charges made against Gibson.

To me it sounds like Henry pissed off the wrong people and somebody is pulling strings.
I wonder if the wood they seized was ever returned?

If not that may be why Gibson has to charge so much for their guitars......

Don't our federal authorities have better things to worry about then wood coming out of Madagascar?
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
User avatar
NickC
Posts: 1814
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: Upstate New York

Re: Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Post by NickC »

Structo wrote: .......... Don't our federal authorities have better things to worry about then wood coming out of Madagascar?
And don't the Feds have better sense than to storm in on a bunch of guitar-makers at a well know Nashville factory, brandishing automatic weapons. For crying out loud! Are luthiers on the same level as Ruby Ridge and Wako or the Weather Underground. Oh wait ...... the current executive branch was closely allied with members of the Weather Underground .... so I guess I have my answer.
User avatar
Structo
Posts: 15446
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:01 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Post by Structo »

Heheheh, I had a post removed and got a warning at The Gear Page for making a political statement.

It was along similar lines as the comment I made here.

That place is silly.
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
User avatar
billyz
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: Spokane, WA
Contact:

Re: Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Post by billyz »

Why is the Obama administration being blamed for an
Act that was enacted in 1900 and last amended in 2008 ?

More Obama bashing I guess.

Seems Gibson is the one at fault here.

"Nagel has been Gibson's exclusive supplier of imported Madagascar ebony since 2006 and continued to import from it after the Lacey Act Amendments came into effect on May 22, 2008.

Nagel purchased the timber from its exclusive supplier of Madagascar timber, Roger Thunam, whose business dealt "almost exclusively in sawn wood or logs which at least as of 2006 were illegal to export from Madagascar," court documents said. "
http://www.furnituretoday.com/blog/The_ ... t_Raid.php
User avatar
NickC
Posts: 1814
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: Upstate New York

Re: Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Post by NickC »

billyz wrote:Why is the Obama administration being blamed for an
Act that was enacted in 1900 and last amended in 2008 ?

More Obama bashing I guess.

Seems Gibson is the one at fault here.

"Nagel has been Gibson's exclusive supplier of imported Madagascar ebony since 2006 and continued to import from it after the Lacey Act Amendments came into effect on May 22, 2008.

Nagel purchased the timber from its exclusive supplier of Madagascar timber, Roger Thunam, whose business dealt "almost exclusively in sawn wood or logs which at least as of 2006 were illegal to export from Madagascar," court documents said. "
http://www.furnituretoday.com/blog/The_ ... t_Raid.php

Fair enough, he shouldn't have all the blame (even though the machine-gun-toting federal police that raided Gibson did so on his watch). Congress is ultimately to blame; they who have worse criminal records than the NFL and NBA combined and are arguably the most corrupt group of miscreants on the planet.

Madagascar is notorious for corruption. They pass legislation that effectively drives up the price of ebony (making it rarer to come by, nearly impossible through legit channels), then profit themselves handsomely through black-market trade of it.

This kind of enforcement is like throwing pot-smokers in prison while giving the drug-barons a free pass. Idiotic.

I apologize for dragging politics into the forum. I'll try to not do that any more.
User avatar
ToneMerc
Posts: 3480
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:55 pm
Location: East Coast

Re: Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Post by ToneMerc »

When you have employess that file action lawsuits against you, it doesn't help your case either.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/07/22/Gibson.pdf

Also, more detailed background info, in particularily the " chain of custody certificates"

http://www.rainforest-alliance.org/fore ... bson-usfws
User avatar
billyz
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: Spokane, WA
Contact:

Re: Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Post by billyz »

NickC wrote:
billyz wrote:Why is the Obama administration being blamed for an
Act that was enacted in 1900 and last amended in 2008 ?

More Obama bashing I guess.

Seems Gibson is the one at fault here.

"Nagel has been Gibson's exclusive supplier of imported Madagascar ebony since 2006 and continued to import from it after the Lacey Act Amendments came into effect on May 22, 2008.

Nagel purchased the timber from its exclusive supplier of Madagascar timber, Roger Thunam, whose business dealt "almost exclusively in sawn wood or logs which at least as of 2006 were illegal to export from Madagascar," court documents said. "
http://www.furnituretoday.com/blog/The_ ... t_Raid.php

Fair enough, he shouldn't have all the blame (even though the machine-gun-toting federal police that raided Gibson did so on his watch). Congress is ultimately to blame; they who have worse criminal records than the NFL and NBA combined and are arguably the most corrupt group of miscreants on the planet.

Madagascar is notorious for corruption. They pass legislation that effectively drives up the price of ebony (making it rarer to come by, nearly impossible through legit channels), then profit themselves handsomely through black-market trade of it.

This kind of enforcement is like throwing pot-smokers in prison while giving the drug-barons a free pass. Idiotic.

I apologize for dragging politics into the forum. I'll try to not do that any more.
I searched and can find no reference to the raid in 2009 on Gibson involving " machine-gun-toting federal police" The articles merely say they were raided, resulting in seizures of property. Nothing about Machine Guns. The first mention of Auto weapons was in the Right wing article you originally cited. More histrionics to whip up the uneducated masses I presume.
I love my Gibsons but I have never heard anything good about
Henry Juszkiewicz nor his management team.
passfan
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:01 pm
Location: Central Florida

Re: Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Post by passfan »

If Gibson breaks the law then screw em. I can't see them getting illegal timber returned even if they are not at fault.
"It Happens"
Forrest Gump
User avatar
Reeltarded
Posts: 10144
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:38 am
Location: GA USA

Re: Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

Post by Reeltarded »

Gibson is like a little China, with a little US Senate thrown in for bad measure.

Plek 'um.

That aside, trade is either controlled by consumers, or run by a mob. We choose. I don't buy new Gibsons. There's no value.
Signatures have a 255 character limit that I could abuse, but I am not Cecil B. DeMille.
Post Reply