Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

[NickC]

I say we drive up to TN and surround the plant with armed volunteers and let the production continue!! This infuriates me that the government would send armed agents into a plant of hard working skilled Americans over WOOD!!!!! Something tells me this wont be the only time we see this in the NEAR future.If thats how our government works then F*** them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I sympathize with your frustration. But I'm afraid that would turn out even worse than Waco and Ruby Ridge combined. There are radicals on both sides (left and right) that would love to exploit such an event, and they're fascists on both extremes of the political arc.

Sorry about that...... Im from the South.

Don't be sorry. I'm a Southern boy too, born in Atlanta.

You can take the boy of of the South .... but you can't take the South out of the boy. And that's just fine.

[heisthl]

Just a guess but I bet they don't seize any wood from C.F. Martin

[qtone]

Just a guess but I bet they don't seize any wood from C.F. Martin

Most likely not since Martin is buying wood inside the US.
Spruce for one.. Dont think mahogany is on the list so that leaves rosewood and ebony and what nut materials they are using..

I knew someone who worked at Martin and was telling me how
the woods are chosen and what they reject or accept..
The neck stock is 16 or 20 inches wide by 20 foot long...
I think that is from Honduras.

The rosewood and ebony woods do not come from inside the US though so
its hard to say but Martin has main sources as does Gibson...

What amount of documentation will be what the feds want to see though..

The Feds are not finished and it appears they do not care if your large or small if you have these woods and are using them and making profit
they will march right in and shut you down.

Here is something to ponder imagine how many builders are using rosewood and ebony right now ?

Then imagine how many guitars have been made using these woods.

It will be interesting to see who gets raided next.
I have a feeling it wont be too long...

Just something I heard through the grapevine...

[qtone]

This is a list of trees which are on endangered list...
http://jerileewei.hubpages.com/hub/Endangered-Trees

By this list Martin could well have a visit from the Feds.

[Mark]

Perhaps this sounds like a crazy idea, but if you need an endangered wood to build a guitar. Brazilian rosewood for example, why not buy land down there and grow it?

It won't be endangered and you'll have the stock you require.

Though I suspect the outsourcing and core business argument comes from the perspective company.

The article about the guy importing pianos was interesting, I wonder if any keys were missing or damaged and needed to be replaced by similar ivory keys?
If that were the case then he would be doing something illegal.

Personally, I don't trust the press at all these days, they are so quick to get a story out, there don't check out if it is true or get all the details.

I dare say if anyone is travelling with there guitars, go through the proper channels first.

[Structo]

I don't think it is so much the fact that endangered trees are being used.
It's the fact that the native people from the source country are not doing any work on the wood.

But don't the guys cutting down the trees and milling them to dimension count?

It is really a bureaucratic mess and like John Suhr said at TGP, it looks like he would have to pay a $190 fee to put one abalone dot on a neck.

But in reality, I wouldn't care so much if the dots were made from mother of pearl, which is similar in appearance.

[Mark]

Tom, thanks for the reply. Always good to hear from you.

I had a look at Gibson CEO's speak, he seemed more interesting in protesting his innocence than explaining negotiations that have been undertaken.

I haven't seen anything from a Government source. To launch such a big operation Gibson must have done something that put them on the radar.

Fender, PRS and others aren't going through these issues. Both makers use rosewood.

It is really a bureaucratic mess and like John Suhr said at TGP, it looks like he would have to pay a $190 fee to put one abalone dot on a neck.

I don't understand this bit at all?

[talbany]

Tom, thanks for the reply. Always good to hear from you.

I had a look at Gibson CEO's speak, he seemed more interesting in protesting his innocence than explaining negotiations that have been undertaken.

I haven't seen anything from a Government source. To launch such a big operation Gibson must have done something that put them on the radar.

Fender, PRS and others aren't going through these issues. Both makers use rosewood.

It is really a bureaucratic mess and like John Suhr said at TGP, it looks like he would have to pay a $190 fee to put one abalone dot on a neck.

I don't understand this bit at all?

Mark
Not sure if this has anything to do with the raid but this sure doesn't help them..

http://www.glassdoor.com/blog/glassdoor ... employees/

Tony

[Revolver]

Whatever the real issue is, you would think that the US government could handle this in a different way other then a raid and no communication of the charges.

http://is.gd/tmKe7r

http://youtu.be/2E-tXQ6kQoU

http://youtu.be/iLZUGFlCYck

[CHIP]

Tom, thanks for the reply. Always good to hear from you.

I had a look at Gibson CEO's speak, he seemed more interesting in protesting his innocence than explaining negotiations that have been undertaken.

I haven't seen anything from a Government source. To launch such a big operation Gibson must have done something that put them on the radar.

Fender, PRS and others aren't going through these issues. Both makers use rosewood.

It is really a bureaucratic mess and like John Suhr said at TGP, it looks like he would have to pay a $190 fee to put one abalone dot on a neck.

I don't understand this bit at all?

Mark
Not sure if this has anything to do with the raid but this sure doesn't help them..

http://www.glassdoor.com/blog/glassdoor ... employees/

Tony

Well then, If you run a company and your employees are disgruntled, you open yourself up for a raid by the Feds. How far away from a Nazi or Communist dictatorship our we?
They actually are doing this type of thing to Boeing down in South Carolina. Same intimidation for different reasons.

[butwhatif]

China doesn't like competition, and all the american companies are just that.
They want u to buy their Les Pauls, and are just paving the way for that to happen. This is part of what we can expect when $ buys influence. Noone has the balls to go against the big $ in this country anymore. You will be obedient, and like it.

[fritferret]

as i understand it, gibson is in trouble because they allegedly knowingly bought illegal wood that was illegally harvested and then tried to make the wood look like it was legal wood that was legally harvested. given that, the indian finishing the wood is the least of their issues. the department of justice has also made it clear that they're at interested in individuals. they're after corporations. this is also a political issue insofar as gibson has chosent to tell a certain almost exclusively through conservative outlets. they're interested to tap into anti-gov sentiment. the doj isn't in the habit of trying cases via the media because they try cases in court. should the doj take gibson to court, public won't matter much, just the case and the defense.

time will reveal the truth, i suppose. lots of folks are eager to defend gibson for some reason. it's not like the dep. of justice is out there randomly raiding businesses everyday. by the time a raid happens, there's some powerful evidence against you. but mistakes are sometimes made. we'll just have to wait and see what happens. if gibson has knowingly engaged in illegal practices and tried to cover it up, then they deserve what they're getting. at that point we're not just talking about honest mistakes. at that point we're talking about criminal behavior.

[butwhatif]

You can bet the doj will bring criminal charges even if they are flimsy. They have to. The big $ can do things that never before existed.

[scotto]

Only significant crime I see Gibson guilty of is extremely poor quality control and that's been going on for a long time. They make some really nice guitars and some extremely bad ones. They don't seem to care about the difference. Last one I bought through the mail had paint that was so blistered you could see it from 30 feet away. The QC inspection card was missing check marks and when I called them to complain their attitude was awful. They didn't care to know who signed the card. Just told me to sort it out with Guitar center. It was an expensive Les Paul. Had another one I bought at Manny's in the eighties that had neck problems that they wouldn't resolve. No more Gibsons for me.

[talbany]

Well then, If you run a company and your employees are disgruntled, you open yourself up for a raid by the Feds. How far away from a Nazi or Communist dictatorship our we?

I doubt the Govt. cares how Gibson treats their employees..However If perhaps Gibson were involved in the purchasing of illegal wood and also treats their senior mgt poorly this would perhaps give them the motivation to go to the feds or a competitor and talk..I a not saying that this is what took place,something to consider and why I posted the list..

Tony